Question on color

[SamuraiJay]

Hello all,

I just have a question that I can not seem to find the answer to anywhere. But I was curious to know if pacman frogs change colors for any reason? I purchased a very blue samurai pacman but now it looks a little green after settling in. I don't know if stress is a factor or what I could be doing wrong.

Both of my frogs are in quarantine enclosures at the moment which are 6qt show box sterilites with 2 inches of Eco earth, humidity rests at 82% temperature during the day is 81 consistently(checked with an infrared temp gun) and night time is 76-78. They are fed crickets dusted with calcium + D3 and given bottled water.

[Bombina Bob]

Usually pacman frogs lose their color intensity as they get older with the ornates as the exception.

[SamuraiJay]

Thank you for the quick reply, but would it be that drastic of a change from Saturday until today?

[Lija]

Yes, it can be fast.

[SamuraiJay]

Dang lol. These are some of the most interesting and amazing animals I've ever owned. Such a treat for sure! Thanks for your help guys/gals and thanks for welcoming me on my other post lija!

[Randy]

My pacmans change color with mood , temperature ,after feeding and humidity levels.My frogs were looking a bit dull . they could hear the frogs outside and were trying to get out of their tank. i put a tank outside with water in it and some land for them to go into .i let them walk around the yard for bit and their colors brightened up considerably and at night in their outdoor enclosure they came out with stunning colors.also after a good feeding they get all happy and bright as well.mine are Ceratophrys ornata.

[GrifTheGreat]

My pacmans change color with mood , temperature ,after feeding and humidity levels.My frogs were looking a bit dull . they could hear the frogs outside and were trying to get out of their tank. i put a tank outside with water in it and some land for them to go into .i let them walk around the yard for bit and their colors brightened up considerably and at night in their outdoor enclosure they came out with stunning colors.also after a good feeding they get all happy and bright as well.mine are Ceratophrys ornata.

I just want to point out to you Randy that Ceratophrys do not react to the calls of other species. They rarely respond to another species in their same genus. This was most likely a coincidence only or a barometric pressure change got them worked up.

As for placing them outside. If they are in a tank it's one thing, but I have seen your photos with them in your yard and that is very ill advised. They do not have the immunities and resistances that native species have against pathogens and parasites here in the states. They will not evolve such resistances because they are not native. Now they do secrete a toxin on their skin that acts as an antibiotic, but don't think that it cannot be passed by. Their diet in captivity is not the same as it is in the wild and even their natural immunity can be compromised due to the lack of specific prey items that will add to the building blocks for the chemical composition of this toxin.

Think of Dart Frogs in captivity and how their toxin is now mild at best compared to those in the wild.

[Randy]

I just want to point out to you Randy that Ceratophrys do not react to the calls of other species. They rarely respond to another species in their same genus. This was most likely a coincidence only or a barometric pressure change got them worked up.

As for placing them outside. If they are in a tank it's one thing, but I have seen your photos with them in your yard and that is very ill advised. They do not have the immunities and resistances that native species have against pathogens and parasites here in the states. They will not evolve such resistances because they are not native. Now they do secrete a toxin on their skin that acts as an antibiotic, but don't think that it cannot be passed by. Their diet in captivity is not the same as it is in the wild and even their natural immunity can be compromised due to the lack of specific prey items that will add to the building blocks for the chemical composition of this toxin.

Think of Dart Frogs in captivity and how their toxin is now mild at best compared to those in the wild.

You know the more you disagree with what i see and know as a fact the more im beginning to think you really do not know as much as you think about these frogs .My proof is the healthy frogs i raise . the fact they actually live together in harmony , the fact that they eat mice gutloaded with so many vitamins and calcium that they are muscular and not fat .Everything you say i can not do successfully i have done successfully. i watch you guys freak out over a bump on a frog and have the audacity to call it frog herpes (really?) when all it was was a mosquito bite , i see you post for 2 days about peat moss when i clearly show you an article written by an acclaimed veterinarian about its bad properties and possibly toxicity yet you talk until i quit posting on it and say you proved me wrong .fact is buddy they don't call it Walmart unless the stuff they sell is cheap and made in china *( china who can give a darn about any epa laws or toxins).Ive tried being nice and to ignore your obvious arrogance in thinking you know it all, fact is no you do not know it all .there is simply more than your way to do things here and that is something you simply cannot accept.after all of your criticism i have simply run out of patience with you. You do not even know what a dew point is and that it can change relative humidity in a VIVARIUM . the fact that plants change the actual humidity levels from top to bottom. put it this way if i was in another country do you not think that the locals although they are not my ethnicity would not evoke a response from me were i alone there?its the same with my frogs they responded to the environment they were in .It had nothing to do with barometric pressure .The fact you never do anything new is exactly why you don't know anything new . I have never had an impacted frog , never had parasites in my frogs ,never had one dry up from lack of humidity (probably because i know about dew points ).Never had any of my pacmans eat each other although they are housed in the same tank. Not so much as a little fight , they even sleep right next to each other without incident . these are things you simply cannot explain or accept.Things that i do that work .i could write a book on how to acclimate these frogs to live together(although some frogs may eat others because they are agressive it seems to me that it is the owners fault they are so aggressive in the way they are housed(cramped small cages with lids and no daylight only brought out to be fed ) and how little they are fed or starved to the point of aggression so some moron can watch it eat ) when done properly i have proven they can live together . i also disagree with your they don't need much room spiel . A 50 gallon breeder tank is perfect for housing 2 pacman frogs and if you tried it you might find they actually do get up and walk around enjoying all the new spots they can burrow in and explore .nothing i have done has caused a single bit of harm to MY frogs .In fact they are healthier for it.the money i spend just to ensure the mice i feed them are properly gut loaded with the right nutrients is extravagant yet well worth the results i have gotten .Unlike some people (no names need be mentioned ) i don't starve my frogs so that they will eat anything i think they should . you want to see some of these morons watch some you tube videos on pacman frogs and you'll see my point. Im not here to argue with you bro i am here to share my experiences and advice on things i do that actually work.Also that post that dogs aren't frogs when it comes to tainted peat is ridiculous they don't have tainted peat in the rain forest . i have learned much in my 51 years by both my mistakes and my successes . I have actually helped people here on this forum and they had good results form my advice . I have never given advice that has resulted in the injury or death of anyone's frog on this forum.Hmm i must be doing something right . so how about you chill on the constant criticism and realize that maybe someone has done what you could not and with success. I have seen my frogs go through many color changes almost like a chameleon and im telling you it isn't just barometric pressures or stress it also can be simply that they are happy, healthy and it shows. All frogs call out in the wild and it is Not uncommon for one species to start another calling out in the wild. have you not ever been to the country and heard several separate species calling out on a warm midsummer's night?It all starts with just one little frog croaking and wham they all start up. You didn't see them staring out the walls looking for the frogs they were hearing , you did not see them calling back, i did.Those guides that we read online are just that play it safe guides . there is much more to be learned about these frogs and their behavior . I am still learning and if you would only open your eyes you would be too. Until my methods fail which they haven't i can say that no one here has proven me wrong on how i raise these frogs.i hope you don't take this the wrong way but its the same constructive criticism you have given me only today i have just given it back to you.Have a good evening and enjoy your frogs my man .My apologies to anyone here who might be offended by my comments but all i have said is fact and i stand by my words and experience .in the immortal words of the great Stan Lee "nuff said "

[DigitalPunk]

Ziggy -

1. Formatting your response will help people read through it easier.

2. I don't think anyone on the FF staff will ever claim to be an expert, but we do successfully keep frogs and do our best to share that knowledge with others. Everyone is welcome to keep their frogs anyway they like, but we will continue to point out things that are being done that fall outside of the normal acceptable care. You may have great success with your setup, but that is not the typical results and is not recommended. No amount of run-on sentences will change that.

3. Grif is a well respected moderator on the forums. Very knowledgeable and helpful. From what I have read of your posts you seem to be an expert on everything and are unwilling or unable to accept criticism or advice without taking it personally or as with this response bashing and hateful.

4. If you have a problem with a member or moderator that warrants a response such as the one you attempted to provide above I recommend you take your grievance and attitude to a Private Message and talk things out like an adult.

Consider this your first warning. You may not agree with advice given on the forum, but it is proven standard of care that works.

[AKFROG]

Well said Paul!

[GrifTheGreat]

I think you need to take a breath. 1 Peat is usually found in bogs in cool climates. Maine being one such place and Scandinavia. There are other places and other species so perhaps there is a subspecies around Uraguay and Paraguay.

2. The word nocturnal explains every reason why you should not place them outside in the sun.

3. As I've said, they are not native and have no resistance to any pathogen here. Sadly you feel I'm wrong about this in which case I'll recomend you to do a little research.

4. Not once have I ever claimed to be an expert and I do know more than you obviously and no matter how rude or unaccepting of information I provide you are matters not to me.

As for tank size. This is not just my standard. This is the standard that the published experts state. I guess you can try and contact one of them(which i do) and ask them. You also insinuate that I have only small tanks in which case you would be wrong. Large frog equals large tank. I also consult a veterinary professional weekly.

Anytime I step in to relay information that someone doesn't like this is what happens. They get bent out of shape and attack me. I just brush it off because I'm used to it. As Paul said they are your animals so do what you want. I'll no longer give you advice since it is clearly not why you are here.

[SamuraiJay]

I also have a question regarding species. How am I to know which species it is that I am working with? Does petsmart usually sell ornata or cranwelli and the samurai blue lines Are they ornata or cranwelli? I just want to make sure that I don't mix up species when it comes time to attempt breeding in a few years.

[Randy]

I think you need to take a breath. 1 Peat is usually found in bogs in cool climates. Maine being one such place and Scandinavia. There are other places and other species so perhaps there is a subspecies around Uraguay and Paraguay.

2. The word nocturnal explains every reason why you should not place them outside in the sun.

3. As I've said, they are not native and have no resistance to any pathogen here. Sadly you feel I'm wrong about this in which case I'll recomend you to do a little research.

4. Not once have I ever claimed to be an expert and I do know more than you obviously and no matter how rude or unaccepting of information I provide you are matters not to me.

As for tank size. This is not just my standard. This is the standard that the published experts state. I guess you can try and contact one of them(which i do) and ask them. You also insinuate that I have only small tanks in which case you would be wrong. Large frog equals large tank. I also consult a veterinary professional weekly.

Anytime I step in to relay information that someone doesn't like this is what happens. They get bent out of shape and attack me. I just brush it off because I'm used to it. As Paul said they are your animals so do what you want. I'll no longer give you advice since it is clearly not why you are here.

ok my answer pacman frogs are diurnal 2 your guessing on uraguay 3 you're wrong about the enclosure in the wild they have a whole jungle to roam its only common practice to house them in small cages it says you dont need them not that its not a good thing and 4 i was being as nice as i could considering you never agree with anything i post i did not say i do not disrespect your opinion i merely said my opinion and experience with this type of frog differ from yours. thanks for the infraction just because i disagreed with you . please read this article by Melissa Kaplan check her experience education and training she co-founded the northbay herpetological society About Melissa Kaplan... Ornates are usually diurnal frogs; some may be crepuscular. Like all frogs, they sleep with their eyes open. they are not always nocturnal in fact they are primarlly diurnal, i hope i do not get yet another infraction for pointing out the facts here .cre·pus·cu·lar

• ZOOLOGY
  (of an animal) appearing or active in twilight. Diurnal
  active chiefly in the daytime <diurnal animals> i know what it means . Fact and case there is my evidence base don fact from a professional trained by the zoological society .

[Randy]

Ziggy -

1. Formatting your response will help people read through it easier.

2. I don't think anyone on the FF staff will ever claim to be an expert, but we do successfully keep frogs and do our best to share that knowledge with others. Everyone is welcome to keep their frogs anyway they like, but we will continue to point out things that are being done that fall outside of the normal acceptable care. You may have great success with your setup, but that is not the typical results and is not recommended. No amount of run-on sentences will change that.

3. Grif is a well respected moderator on the forums. Very knowledgeable and helpful. From what I have read of your posts you seem to be an expert on everything and are unwilling or unable to accept criticism or advice without taking it personally or as with this response bashing and hateful.

4. If you have a problem with a member or moderator that warrants a response such as the one you attempted to provide above I recommend you take your grievance and attitude to a Private Message and talk things out like an adult.

Consider this your first warning. You may not agree with advice given on the forum, but it is proven standard of care that works.

My methods are proven as well and i can send you to sites and professional herpetologists who agree with them . I do not think you actually read all my posts but from now on i will back them up with references to the professionals i get them form .their qualifications and their sources so that you can read that first before you judge me .any more questions on this issue can be brought to me in private messaging i will be happy to respond in kind with the factual evidence required book page and source . ty have a nice day .

[GrifTheGreat]

I also have a question regarding species. How am I to know which species it is that I am working with? Does petsmart usually sell ornata or cranwelli and the samurai blue lines Are they ornata or cranwelli? I just want to make sure that I don't mix up species when it comes time to attempt breeding in a few years.

Petsmart usually ends up with C. cranwelli. They occasinally get ornata, but rarely. They do not get Samurai Blue morphs which are a color morph of C. cranwelli. There are Blue morphs of ornata, but they are very rare.

If you post a picture of your frog we can tell you the species.

[SamuraiJay]

The samurai I got from oaks reptile show not petsmart, my first pacman I got was from petsmart. Here are the pictures of my little guys

The green is the one I got from petsmart but I'm sure you would figure that out immediately. They just got fed earthworms in these pictures lol.

Also, I just thought id explain these are my quarantine bins for them. They will be transferred to a split 10 gallon after 90 days.

[Heatheranne]

Randy,

There are different ways of housing species. We respect that here. Most of us moderators teach the most proper husbandry. The accurate temps, humidity, substrates, foods, minerals/vitamins, etc. The education we provide is data-based, tested education. Much of the education is from rescue organizations and proliferation studies such as Amphibian Ark, Tree walkers, experienced breeders, etc. The education is accurate. Can there be variances as to what they'll tolerate? Of course. We teach the best husbandry here. What members take from the education is there choice. We will continue to teach the best husbandry despite opinions, as we should.

Perhaps your methods have been successful for you. That's great! We wish the best for each frog and frog caregiver.

I would like to mention that Grif is very well educated and that is why we chose to hire him as a moderator. His education goes way beyond reading a few articles.

We do not say that everyone here has to agree with everything that is written here. What we are asking is that a bit of respect is shown. If you disagree, please send a pm to the member you disagree with or to another moderator. Pleasant debate is always welcome, and we encourage it. It's the best way to learn and helps others here as well. Debate often encourages and brings up other topics and other questions and answers.

Please, however, keep things cordial. Debate vs. banter.

Please also start your own threads rather than banter on someone else's thread.

Thank you kindly,
Heather (mod)

[Heatheranne]

SamuraiJay,

On behalf of the chaos on your thread, I'd like to apologize.

I wanted to add a hint of advice I noticed... Be sure the bottled water you are using is dechlorinated .

[Randy]

Randy,

There are different ways of housing species. We respect that here. Most of us moderators teach the most proper husbandry. The accurate temps, humidity, substrates, foods, minerals/vitamins, etc. The education we provide is data-based, tested education. Much of the education is from rescue organizations and proliferation studies such as Amphibian Ark, Tree walkers, experienced breeders, etc. The education is accurate. Can there be variances as to what they'll tolerate? Of course. We teach the best husbandry here. What members take from the education is there choice. We will continue to teach the best husbandry despite opinions, as we should.

Perhaps your methods have been successful for you. That's great! We wish the best for each frog and frog caregiver.

I would like to mention that Grif is very well educated and that is why we chose to hire him as a moderator. His education goes way beyond reading a few articles.

We do not say that everyone here has to agree with everything that is written here. What we are asking is that a bit of respect is shown. If you disagree, please send a pm to the member you disagree with or to another moderator. Pleasant debate is always welcome, and we encourage it. It's the best way to learn and helps others here as well. Debate often encourages and brings up other topics and other questions and answers.

Please, however, keep things cordial. Debate vs. banter.

Please also start your own threads rather than banter on someone else's thread.

Thank you kindly,
Heather (mod)

no problem ill not pubic post here to members anymore ill use private posts

[SamuraiJay]

It's natural spring water, I use deer park, I believe I read somewhere it's good to use. But if anything I have packets of reptisafe I have been using for tap water before I got the deer park.