Email sent to Steven at Big Apple Herps

[Jeff Kennedy]

I appreciate the info John. I will check into that. From what I have read online this weekend, Big Apple isn't very return/refund friendly. I feel like I have maintained an equal stance at this point by still praising how they have handled everything else aside from this and that the other 3 examples of frogs that I have purchased from them have been just as described. I am optimistic that Steven will take care of this but wanted to also communicate that I am displeased with this and that I don't plan on just laying down on this. If it is handled appropriately, then I will conduct a follow up post praising them as up to this point they have been nice to deal with. If they just blow me off and I am out $200, then I have the luxury of contacting one of my former co-workers whom deals solely in internet fraud. None of that is intended as threats. If they are in fact falsely advertising these things to unsuspecting buyers (myself included) then it needs to stop. I don't see anything wrong with protecting other buyers and if I have some tools on my belt or some connections that can assist me in this manner, then I don't see anything wrong in exercising them. I don't feel as if I have been negative about any of this. The following was Kevin's reply to my original thread on the topic. I don't understand how I am being perceived as threatening or whatnot. That wasn't my intent. I just wanted them to know that I wasn't going to take any of this lying down. Kevin's original reply... "Hmm well I THINK you should talk to the company first (bigapple herps). At first if they are unwilling to make a trade back. Tell them it is against the law to FALSE ADVERTISE. Tell them if they dont return your money back that you WILL SUE their *****. Keep pressing them. Keep calling them, ask for the head person. If they ask "what proof you got?" , you tell them you know alot of people who got scammed by them, and that they will be witnesses. That they even got receipts too. Then just talk to your credit card company."
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[Deku]

I understand how you feel towards them. I feel the same, to me they are like turtlesale.com. Both sites are TERRIBLE to buy from. I knew a friend who got jipped from both. Lets put it like this, they are a "big business", meaning you should watch your words around them. They too have lawyers, they could come up with some bs saying you are harrassing/threatening them. You have to go by the rules, not just rules of the law, but rules of the society. If that makes any sense.
First you warn them that they sold you the wrong item- Nicely and ask for a return/refund.

Second- Should they not comply, you tell them you have proof. You take photographic evidence of the site/page of where you purchased it. You get evidence to pile up:
1)Testimonials
2)Photos of a dwarf, and photos of a true giant.
3)E-mails. anything that is helpful.

Thirdly-Then you make threats should they not comply, but of course REASONABLE threats. Don't leave yourself open for any lawsuits or loopholes. Remember that, and think like a lawyer cunniving, devious, sneaky little rat(no offense to any lawyers out there). Show the person you mean business, and that you know what you are talking about. Be confident, but dont be cocky.

Four-Should they STILL not comply, show the police evidence, and make a lawsuit. Remember to keep AS MUCH EVIDENCE as posible, record calls, save and print emails, anything you have.



Overall you also need to remember we are human, if we feel threatened we will show our fangs. Also the fact you dont mess with a person unless you ABSOLUTELY need to. My aunt is a police officer, so is my friends parent. My uncle is a lawyer, and my friend is studying to be one. So I know a thing or two. Just saying, be friendly above all, and avoid any threats.

Good luck to you man. I hate these type of people, and for the record... These guys mostlikely know that these are dwarfs. I mean do you think YOU are the only one who probably complains to them? If 80people complain to a person about being mis-sold an item. Don't you think they would catch on by now? This is why I prefer expos over these.

[Jeff Kennedy]

I appreciate the reply man. I still maintain that nothing that I implied was meant to be a threat. I have a direct pipeline to a former co-worker that is a federal agent now, dealing solely with internet fraud. If they plan on just blowing me off as they have done to others apparently, then I have no qualms with reporting it and seeking the advice from the top of the food chain.

[Deku]

I appreciate the reply man. I still maintain that nothing that I implied was meant to be a threat. I have a direct pipeline to a former co-worker that is a federal agent now, dealing solely with internet fraud. If they plan on just blowing me off as they have done to others apparently, then I have no qualms with reporting it and seeking the advice from the top of the food chain.

Thats great, but you shouldnt advertise to them that you have something against them and also a way to screw them over. Because they will think of a way to counteract it. Trust me on this one, it happens. Just be very selective of words. Thats all Iam saying.

[Jeff Kennedy]

I never threatened to sue them. I quoted the original comment that you posted yesterday on the thread where I sought the advice of the forums experts. You stated that and then replied to my email that I was threatening and shouldn't have been. Go back and read your post.

[Jeff Kennedy]

I never had intentions nor mentioned sueing. You brought that up in my initial thread that denounced in fact that I received a dwarf when I paid for a giant. Trying to sue over $200 is pointless. If they tell me to go to hell tomorrow and not help me, then I will run it past a higher authority since it is false and or fraudulent and I will leave testimonials on every frog and reptile website, curtailng my experience. There is no harm or no foul in seeking justice or sharing my experience with others. All I did was send them money for something that I didn't get. I'm not the bad guy here.

[Deku]

Yes I did. But I didnt say do it as a first resort. Thats pretty much as a second or third resort.

[John]

Alright guys, there's no point in debating it - the train has already left the station. Let's leave it be and see how Jeff gets on.

[Deku]

I appreciate the info John. I will check into that. From what I have read online this weekend, Big Apple isn't very return/refund friendly. I feel like I have maintained an equal stance at this point by still praising how they have handled everything else aside from this and that the other 3 examples of frogs that I have purchased from them have been just as described. I am optimistic that Steven will take care of this but wanted to also communicate that I am displeased with this and that I don't plan on just laying down on this. If it is handled appropriately, then I will conduct a follow up post praising them as up to this point they have been nice to deal with. If they just blow me off and I am out $200, then I have the luxury of contacting one of my former co-workers whom deals solely in internet fraud. None of that is intended as threats. If they are in fact falsely advertising these things to unsuspecting buyers (myself included) then it needs to stop. I don't see anything wrong with protecting other buyers and if I have some tools on my belt or some connections that can assist me in this manner, then I don't see anything wrong in exercising them. I don't feel as if I have been negative about any of this. The following was Kevin's reply to my original thread on the topic. I don't understand how I am being perceived as threatening or whatnot. That wasn't my intent. I just wanted them to know that I wasn't going to take any of this lying down. Kevin's original reply... "Hmm well I THINK you should talk to the company first (bigapple herps). At first if they are unwilling to make a trade back. Tell them it is against the law to FALSE ADVERTISE. Tell them if they dont return your money back that you WILL SUE their *****. Keep pressing them. Keep calling them, ask for the head person. If they ask "what proof you got?" , you tell them you know alot of people who got scammed by them, and that they will be witnesses. That they even got receipts too. Then just talk to your credit card company."
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You threatened to sue, and mentioned you have contacts. It wasnt that necessary right there. Not only that but they could prepare themselves on court should you sue them. Meaning they could easily find a loophole. Again something you dont want to happen if you are trying to sue, or get something out of it. Just saying. The law can be one thing. But not everyone who does not comply with the law will successfully get sued. Again, you need to be more tact-full when it comes to dealing with a big business. Its like going to a bank and saying hey I like you, but I will sue your *** if you dont help me out.

By law they have to do somethings. But they can very well find a loop hole. Its a possibility, and then what will you do? Tell them its not fair? These people(big business) dont give two hoots about anyone except money. Again Iam just saying. Its a recommendation. Not trying to pick on you, or show you up. Just trying to be nice and caring to tell you what I think and some facts.
Again good luck.