Help! Firebelly Toad has Cloudy Eye, not responding to treatment

[KayIS]

Update: After 11 days of the corneal ulcer mix (which I find out still uses Gentamycin, but has some other things in it too), the frog's eye was actually looking worse - not just cloudy, but opaque. He could not see at all out of that eye. I took him to another vet to get a second opinion, which was that the problem was corneal in nature, but he didn't know what exactly. He admitted he was no amphibian expert and that actually there is little written literature on these sorts of things. He recommended an opthalmologist (I can't afford this), or just continuing with the treatment, but modifying it by isolating the frog after the drops are put in to make sure they don't wash off too quickly. I am still using the corneal ulcer mix, but I am dosing the frog as recommended by the second vet: twice daily, one drop in the eye, then placing the frog in a clean container with a scant amount of water in it, and leaving him in there for at least 5 minutes before returning him to the aquarium. I've been at this now for about 5 days, and to my amazement, the frog's eye is starting to clear up. It is no longer completely white opaque, but now just hazy, with a distinct opaque area that is shrinking. In dim light, he actually looks normal and I have to examine his underside to make sure I am looking at the right brown frog. He can also now see out of that eye again, although I think his vision is still compromised because he is still spinning around, and I do notice he'll still poke his good eye up sideways to look at me, but less now. I was shocked when he accurately attacked my wiggling finger on his left side - because that means he can actually see out of the cloudy eye.

I don't know if he'll get better completely, but I am hopeful. My own research has come up with a number of possible answers, including corneal lipidosis (another reason why you should NOT overfeed your frog!), and cataracts, but the vet assured me this was no cataract, but some corneal issue. This particular frog weighs almost nothing - he doesn't even register on the scale - and he is anything but fat, so I can safely count out the corneal lipidosis.

Griff, I decided to start using a water conditioner, just in case there is some heavy metals or other contamination in the tank because I want to make sure that is not causing the problem. I am having the water tested again anyway, because i am curious. Heavy metals aren't good for me either. I also wonder if the water's natural softness is an issue for the frog, if he is mineral deficient, but my plumber tells me that there are plenty of minerals in my water because I have buildup in the pipes he recently worked on. Anyone know anything about the minerals, etc. required by frogs, other than calcium?

[BeckyM]

Wow, this sounds almost EXACTLY like what my eastern gray tree frog has. Cloudy eyes, but he still runs around, eats and acts normal. Unlike you, there's not a frog vet anywhere accessible for me. :| Blah! but I did I find a frog "guru" and was told to use Maracyn...but it's not doing much. >_< I too, have changed my frog's water supply.

Frogs and toads also need D3 (so I've heard). I've been giving my crickets some gut loading stuff that's loaded with calcium and D3 so no dusting required for me.

[KayIS]

If you've looked at the other threads, it seems that cloudy eye is most commonly associated with bacterial infections, hence all the gentamicin. Maracyn acts on gram positive bacteria, gentamicin sulfate works on gram negative bacteria (and some gram positive), so there is a big difference here. The prescription for my frog is a 0.3% opthalmic solution USP gentamicin sulfate, one drop twice daily fo 7-10 days, although you can see I've been at it quite a bit longer. Maybe you can convince a local vet to get this prescription for you, or find it on the internet. Also, you could try dosing it into the water and having your frog sit in it, since they absorb water through their skin. I wouldn't know what the dose is, it depends on the frog's weight, and if you aren't careful you can kill your frog. Ever try contacting the biology department of your local university? If you're lucky, you'll find an amphibian specialist who can help you and point you in the right direction.

I wonder if you don't treat the eyes whether it will progress to that horrible opaque stuff. I would not have done all this vet stuff if the eye was simply cloudy and wasn't affecting his life. Being blind on one side is a serious thing. Fortunately, he'll never starve, since we hand feed him anyway.

I've also read that cloudiness may just be a sign of aging in certain kinds of frogs too, although i can't find any verification that this is correct.

Good luck.

[BeckyM]

If you've looked at the other threads, it seems that cloudy eye is most commonly associated with bacterial infections, hence all the gentamicin. Maracyn acts on gram positive bacteria, gentamicin sulfate works on gram negative bacteria (and some gram positive), so there is a big difference here. The prescription for my frog is a 0.3% opthalmic solution USP gentamicin sulfate, one drop twice daily fo 7-10 days, although you can see I've been at it quite a bit longer. Maybe you can convince a local vet to get this prescription for you, or find it on the internet. Also, you could try dosing it into the water and having your frog sit in it, since they absorb water through their skin. I wouldn't know what the dose is, it depends on the frog's weight, and if you aren't careful you can kill your frog. Ever try contacting the biology department of your local university? If you're lucky, you'll find an amphibian specialist who can help you and point you in the right direction.

I wonder if you don't treat the eyes whether it will progress to that horrible opaque stuff. I would not have done all this vet stuff if the eye was simply cloudy and wasn't affecting his life. Being blind on one side is a serious thing. Fortunately, he'll never starve, since we hand feed him anyway.

I've also read that cloudiness may just be a sign of aging in certain kinds of frogs too, although i can't find any verification that this is correct.

Good luck.

Sounds like I'd administer the gentamicin the same way I do the maracyn. I mix it with water and the frog soaks in it (Unless he hops out...>_>)
Aging...well, that could possibly be the case with my frog. He's at least 7.
Biology department? Now that is an excellent idea! Thank you.

[KayIS]

Do you know what the ratio of antibiotic to water for your frog? That was one thing I didn't get - because my frog weighs so little it didn't even register on the scale at the vet's. Maybe your frog weighs more. As for age, my frog is 5 years old, which is young because he can live anywhere from 15 to 30 years. I don't know what the lifespan of your frog is - 7 may well be old. I hope you find a herpetologist, but my experience has been that outside the university, most of them are more knowledgable about reptiles, not amphibians. Good luck.

[BeckyM]

He weighs about the same as a hermit crab with a shell...maybe a smidge heavier. He's LITTLE. And I've been doing about 1/3 packet of maracyn to 2 cups of water. I know it's a stronger concentration, much stronger, but he's not in the mix as long as fish is.

Gray treefrogs don't live much longer than 8 years.

[KayIS]

Gee - if he seems okay otherwise, I'd stop dosing him and just let him live out his life. I wouldn't have treated my frog if he was 25 and could still otherwise see and enjoy life. I only did it because he's young and he was really pretty blind. If it was just cosmetic, I'd leave him alone.

[KayIS]

Becky-

sorry i didn't respond directly to you - see my answer after Griff's

[KayIS]

Oh no! Your froggie died?

I just found out that crickets are the main cause of eye problems - cholesterol deposits - and it means we need to feed a variety of insects. See matt's response lower down the thread. I wanted to touch base with you, just in case you were still trying to find a solution.

[GrifTheGreat]

Update: After 11 days of the corneal ulcer mix (which I find out still uses Gentamycin, but has some other things in it too), the frog's eye was actually looking worse - not just cloudy, but opaque. He could not see at all out of that eye. I took him to another vet to get a second opinion, which was that the problem was corneal in nature, but he didn't know what exactly. He admitted he was no amphibian expert and that actually there is little written literature on these sorts of things. He recommended an opthalmologist (I can't afford this), or just continuing with the treatment, but modifying it by isolating the frog after the drops are put in to make sure they don't wash off too quickly. I am still using the corneal ulcer mix, but I am dosing the frog as recommended by the second vet: twice daily, one drop in the eye, then placing the frog in a clean container with a scant amount of water in it, and leaving him in there for at least 5 minutes before returning him to the aquarium. I've been at this now for about 5 days, and to my amazement, the frog's eye is starting to clear up. It is no longer completely white opaque, but now just hazy, with a distinct opaque area that is shrinking. In dim light, he actually looks normal and I have to examine his underside to make sure I am looking at the right brown frog. He can also now see out of that eye again, although I think his vision is still compromised because he is still spinning around, and I do notice he'll still poke his good eye up sideways to look at me, but less now. I was shocked when he accurately attacked my wiggling finger on his left side - because that means he can actually see out of the cloudy eye.

I don't know if he'll get better completely, but I am hopeful. My own research has come up with a number of possible answers, including corneal lipidosis (another reason why you should NOT overfeed your frog!), and cataracts, but the vet assured me this was no cataract, but some corneal issue. This particular frog weighs almost nothing - he doesn't even register on the scale - and he is anything but fat, so I can safely count out the corneal lipidosis.

Griff, I decided to start using a water conditioner, just in case there is some heavy metals or other contamination in the tank because I want to make sure that is not causing the problem. I am having the water tested again anyway, because i am curious. Heavy metals aren't good for me either. I also wonder if the water's natural softness is an issue for the frog, if he is mineral deficient, but my plumber tells me that there are plenty of minerals in my water because I have buildup in the pipes he recently worked on. Anyone know anything about the minerals, etc. required by frogs, other than calcium?

Well like us the basically need the same minerals and vitamines. Some water conditioners add minerals to the water which can be used to make distilled water and reverse osmosis water safe for amphibians to use as their main source of water by converting them into drinking water. These are specific conditioners and I don't know their brands off hand. I'm not sure of the exact mineral content that amphibians need compared to us but its similar.

To be safe while waiting to have your water retested I would try to use natural spring water. It must be from an actual spring and contain no additives. This way you can be sure that your frogs are not being exsposed to excessive amounts of heavy metals and or excessive amounts of one type of mineral which like an overdose of a vitamin can cause serious issues. Its the same as being poisoned. So I would try the spring water first while waiting for your well water to be tested again.

You use calcium dust so also use a multivitamine. A multivitamin should only be given once a week. Also when you find out that your well water is safe use (Tetra Fauna Aqua Safe). It says right on it that it makes water safe for reptiles and amphibians. Also removes chlorine/chlorimines/and heavy metals.

I hope this helps there are other brands that remove heavy metals, but I don't know of them. (Prime) is supposed to be and excellent water conditioner/de-chlorinator.

Keep us posted.

[KayIS]

Griff - where on earth do I find a multivitamin for an amphibian? My local pet store thinks I am a nut.

[GrifTheGreat]

Griff - where on earth do I find a multivitamin for an amphibian? My local pet store thinks I am a nut.

You can use a multivitamin for Reptiles that is in powder form. Go online and order. Check Josh'sFrogs.com and look for Rep-Cal Herptivite it is a good multivitamin for both reptiles and amphibians.