Suicidal White's TreeF.?

[wesleybrouwer]

By answering another thread, it got me thinking.
You don't use rainwater, but water do you use?
Purified water coincidental?

[Crystal6]

Wow a lot to talk about.
A: I wouldn't be able to find a vet quickly or easily. I live very far away from people like that.
B: Even if I did have a way to find a vet like that, how would I preserve the remaining frog until then? Put it in the freezer with the food? (That sounds... unsanitary.)
C: I use Spring Water. It never smells or tastes like chlorine and my other frogs have not gotten sick from it before.
D: I met them at an expo. I doubt I'd be able to get another frog. (Though perhaps I could get a refund.)

[charlamanda]

Wow a lot to talk about.
A: I wouldn't be able to find a vet quickly or easily. I live very far away from people like that.
B: Even if I did have a way to find a vet like that, how would I preserve the remaining frog until then? Put it in the freezer with the food? (That sounds... unsanitary.)
C: I use Spring Water. It never smells or tastes like chlorine and my other frogs have not gotten sick from it before.
D: I met them at an expo. I doubt I'd be able to get another frog. (Though perhaps I could get a refund.)

Sorry to overwelm you, myself and others, I am sure, just want to make sure you have all your options and info.
I am in the same situation, as far as vets go and yes you can put the frogs inside a ziplock or several and preserve them in the frig if you need to or in another area that is cold or even a cooler with ice or icepack, but thats only if want to. It's been my experience hat after a pet dies the store/breeder wants proof or want find the reason it's expired or some owners have posted they have had there animals/frogs examined p.m. to determine the cause of death, especially since they have other frogs and some are sick as well. Knowing the cause may save their remaining frogs.
You obviously don't have to do anything at all, you need to decide whats best for you.
I think at least, the breeder, should be made aware of the fact both the frogs they sold you have expired. If they have any remaining frogs it may save them if they are sick, and you may get replacement frogs.
Again, I am sorry for your losses and don't want to overload you with info, but unfortuneatly this is a time sensitive issue if you do with to presue your case with the breeder.
As far as the water, you could always have it tested. There are kits sold that will tell you whats in your water at hardware store, fish store and many department stores. From what I have been reading, some water may be too purified for your frog, but I am not the expert.

[charlamanda]

By answering another thread, it got me thinking.
You don't use rainwater, but water do you use?
Purified water coincidental?

Just to clarify..are you saying not to use rainwater? And to whom was the question intented for? I wasn't sure about the rain water and am curious.
I myself use my tap water, but it's from a well from springs and it's very clean around here, little or no polution and full of natural minerals. There are very strict laws in the area and we are not allowed to use anything with gas or oil on the lake at all and toxic spills of any kind are taken very seriously.

[Crystal6]

Just to clarify..are you saying not to use rainwater? And to whom was the question intented for? I wasn't sure about the rain water and am curious.
I myself use my tap water, but it's from a well from springs and it's very clean around here, little or no polution and full of natural minerals. There are very strict laws in the area and we are not allowed to use anything with gas or oil on the lake at all and toxic spills of any kind are taken very seriously.

Amazing. The pollution where I live is pretty bad so I don't use rain water. Back when I had Woodfrogs I used to use the lake water though. (Because I wasn't sure which minerals/chemicals they did/didn't need.)

I used spring water, OR I boil regular water, OR I treat it with a solution to rid of it chlorine. Lately it's just been spring water but I've used all of those methods with little problem.

[charlamanda]

Amazing. The pollution where I live is pretty bad so I don't use rain water. Back when I had Woodfrogs I used to use the lake water though. (Because I wasn't sure which minerals/chemicals they did/didn't need.)

I used spring water, OR I boil regular water, OR I treat it with a solution to rid of it chlorine. Lately it's just been spring water but I've used all of those methods with little problem.

WOW I am surprised you have that much polution since you mentioned you are in the middle of nowhere, that's aweful and sorry about that! I think your water choices are fine, I just don't understand what happened to your poor frogs. Sadly without a necropsy you may never know what happened, but I hope if you decide to get any more frogs they do better than these.
Maybe you can try another breed that is hardier, like Gray Tree Frogs. I just love mine and from what I understand they are very easy and hardy tree frogs, not to mention very entertaining and wonderful tame pets. I have 13 now and a entire pool full of tadpoles, I'd love to send them, but I am still waiting to hear from the Pa Fish and Game Comission on that issue. If you wre closer I'd just drive them over.
Are you in Canada or US? I will check with the Pa F & G Comission about crossing states and country borders too.
I know that there are several websites that are linked and or reccomended maybe you can try ordering a new frog/frogs from there. Best of luck.

[Crystal6]

WOW I am surprised you have that much polution since you mentioned you are in the middle of nowhere, that's aweful and sorry about that! I think your water choices are fine, I just don't understand what happened to your poor frogs. Sadly without a necropsy you may never know what happened, but I hope if you decide to get any more frogs they do better than these.
Maybe you can try another breed that is hardier, like Gray Tree Frogs. I just love mine and from what I understand they are very easy and hardy tree frogs, not to mention very entertaining and wonderful tame pets. I have 13 now and a entire pool full of tadpoles, I'd love to send them, but I am still waiting to hear from the Pa Fish and Game Comission on that issue. If you wre closer I'd just drive them over.
Are you in Canada or US? I will check with the Pa F & G Comission about crossing states and country borders too.
I know that there are several websites that are linked and or reccomended maybe you can try ordering a new frog/frogs from there. Best of luck.

I'm near Canada but not in it. Anyway, I DO have more White's Treefrogs, they're just Indonesian. (Though... having a few common living frogs it better then rare dead ones so... what am I complaining about?)

As for the polution, I'm not sure about the rain water but I know our pond has it pretty badly. I used to find leopard tree frogs and wood frogs there all the time. Now they have all disappeared. (I haven't been able to find eggs there in the last few years either. I had to find the spring peeper ones in a ditch instead. )

[charlamanda]

I'm near Canada but not in it. Anyway, I DO have more White's Treefrogs, they're just Indonesian. (Though... having a few common living frogs it better then rare dead ones so... what am I complaining about?)
***Good point, but it's ok to complain, a loss is a loss reguardless if you have other pets or not!!
As for the polution, I'm not sure about the rain water but I know our pond has it pretty badly. I used to find leopard tree frogs and wood frogs there all the time. Now they have all disappeared. (I haven't been able to find eggs there in the last few years either. I had to find the spring peeper ones in a ditch instead. )

***From what I have read frogs are especially sensitive to pollution. When studies are done of waterways for pollution they check for frogs. If there are many deformaties in the froglets, since they will show signs of this before other native species of the particular pond/lake/river etc., they can usually tell just from that there is some pollution.
This may explain why there are many species of frogs disappearing from your area. Sad and makes me angry!!

[wesleybrouwer]

Just to clarify..are you saying not to use rainwater? And to whom was the question intented for? I wasn't sure about the rain water and am curious.
I myself use my tap water, but it's from a well from springs and it's very clean around here, little or no polution and full of natural minerals. There are very strict laws in the area and we are not allowed to use anything with gas or oil on the lake at all and toxic spills of any kind are taken very seriously.

Hi, the question was intended for Crystal.
Rainwater is mostly fine, when you filter out the pieces of leaves and stuff that regularly comes with it.
Sometimes in dense areas i would be carefull using it after a period of dright,
i believe it also takes all kind of floating pieces with it that are out in the air,
like exhausting gasses.

I was talking about purified water.
Like in osmose or distilled water.
This will cause a reverse osmose effect between water inside you're frog and the water he sits in.
I posted it somewhere on a topic that is about the differences in water.

[wesleybrouwer]

@Charlamandra

What seth means is that every frog have some parasites and worms,
some of them are actually quit good for them,
just as we have good and bad bacterias.

WC frogs ALWAYS are infested with them while CB will have far less.
By putting a WC with a CB you give the oppurtunity to pass on some of the stuff from nature into your "clean"environment.

Another big problem can be between 2 WC species from a different place.
A frog from America may be resistant to types of diseases since evolutionary they geneticaly build up resistance.
Adding for example an Asian frog to it,
you bring in stuff they are not resistant to since it is unknown for their biology,
same goes with the Asian frog that will be prone to catch a typical American disease.

Besides those problems,
any stress will put down the defence mechanism of you're frog,
the parasites and/or worms will boom since the body isn't able to fight it.
Number one cause will be stress, this will weaken any frog significantly.
Adding another frog and even handling them, especially WC, will stress them out and weaken them a lot.
Therefore the parasite or whatever will be able to take control and make you;re frog sick
wich worsens the stress and make it sicker, most people will then get the frog extra attention by picking it up and stressing it even more.

In the end, dead is the result of it.

Best way to deal is,
let the frog be and try to collect feces for examination,
If it soes not poo you can get him/here out of the tank by using gloves
and put it in a little bowl of luke water.
After 5-10 minutes get it out and put the frog in a small enclosure with some kitchen towel or little moist cottonwool.
Most of the time the frog will get something out for you

Then let it examin by microscope as soon as possible to check what is wrong with the frog.
By doing this in time, the vet can often tell you what is wrong and give you a treatment.
Most chance that the frog will make it that way.

Sidenote to that is, i think a frog shoul never be sold sick already.
Before buying it, check for any signs of a disease if possible.
A sick frog can be recognized quit well.
When you got doubts, just don't buy it out of compassion.
A waste of money and the frog will die anyways.

[charlamanda]

What seth means is that every frog have some parasites and worms,
some of them are actually quit good for them,
just as we have good and bad bacterias.
***Very interesting, I didn't realize that frogs normally have parasites that are helpful.

WC frogs ALWAYS are infested with them while CB will have far less.
By putting a WC with a CB you give the oppurtunity to pass on some of the stuff from nature into your "clean"environment.
***This makes a lot on sense, since CB's aren't subjected to the same enviroments the WC are and therefore don't have the natural resistance.

Another big problem can be between 2 WC species from a different place.
A frog from America may be resistant to types of diseases since evolutionary they geneticaly build up resistance.
Adding for example an Asian frog to it,
you bring in stuff they are not resistant to since it is unknown for their biology,
same goes with the Asian frog that will be prone to catch a typical American disease.
****Kind of like the native americans and small pox and Mexican's, and other countries like India, were drinking the for us is.....a pooping experience!LOL Good ole Montezuma's revenge!LOL

[charlamanda]

Hi, the question was intended for Crystal.
Rainwater is mostly fine, when you filter out the pieces of leaves and stuff that regularly comes with it.
Sometimes in dense areas i would be carefull using it after a period of dright,
i believe it also takes all kind of floating pieces with it that are out in the air,
like exhausting gasses.

I was talking about purified water.
Like in osmose or distilled water.
This will cause a reverse osmose effect between water inside you're frog and the water he sits in.
I posted it somewhere on a topic that is about the differences in water.

Thanks for clarifying. I would use a bucket that was cleaned, covered with a mess netting and not under any trees or gutter run off from the house.