A question regarding the behaviour of Xenopus Laevis

[mpmistr]

Not being aggressive in my tone, just trying to educate. Many of these frogs are lost because they are added to the system before it is completely cycled. It is extremely stressful to the animal, and if you do a forum search you will see that many do not survive.

I don't know what it feels like for these animals to be exposed to ammonia/nitrite but I would wager it feels much like being rolled around in fiberglass, so yes I really advocate cycling before adding live animals to aquatic systems.

Just trying to be straightforward with you, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[Astyanax]

Not being aggressive in my tone, just trying to educate. Many of these frogs are lost because they are added to the system before it is completely cycled. It is extremely stressful to the animal, and if you do a forum search you will see that many do not survive.

I don't know what it feels like for these animals to be exposed to ammonia/nitrite but I would wager it feels much like being rolled around in fiberglass, so yes I really advocate cycling before adding live animals to aquatic systems.

Just trying to be straightforward with you, sorry if you took it the wrong way.

I appreciate the help, especially if you have experience with ACF. I find it quite offensive that you judge prematurely and try to 'educate' me. I've spent so many hours studying and researching ACF and frog keeping in general that it's not nice to read somebody think that you're totally ignorant on the topic.

My frogs look healthy and are acting 'normally'. Yes, I cannot see how the nitrites are effecting them on a molecular scale but neither can you, as you said.

I find it natural to advocate fishless cycling, but in my reply to you I explained that this was impossible and it was either have the fish put down or put into my care.

The only thing I haven't looked into is Xenopus Laevis in academia, I think College/University level of study is a bit too much for me a the moment, as I am quite occupied with my own degree. Nonetheless, I can say that I am quite comfortable with the basics and the chemistry of it all. Theoretically, I'm at a stable point, but as with everything, when you put the theory into practise you come across problems/questions. Hence this topic.

To some extent, it is my fault. I should have extended the introduction to the thread with more details, but I didn't want that to derail the topic. Funny, because that is what is happening right now. That is the problem with aquaria related forums, you post a question and if you leave the tiniest detail, the majority of comments will be 'moaning' about the errors in your tank, not that this is bad.

~

I do appreciate the reply, truly. But to what extent you're doing things correct is quite problematic. For a newcomer, with no experience, it's hard to find a stable opinion on an existing question. You say X but another person says Y, and both have experience with the subject.


Anyhow, I'll read the article and I'll keep observing my frogs, and see how it goes. I don't want my frogs to die either, naturally.

[mpmistr]

Simply pointing out that having any measurable amount of nitrite in your tank is toxic to your frogs. Nitrite is actually more toxic than ammonia and can cause you real problems. It's not a tiny detail to have a system that is not cycled with clawed frogs in it, they are very sensitive to nitrite and it can kill them, it would be irresponsible for me to tell you otherwise. If you find this offensive then so be it.

I would do water changes and treat the water with Prime since it detoxifies ammonia and even nitrite, I've had good luck with that product.

[Astyanax]

Yes, I know that Nitrite is more harmful than Ammonia and Nitrates. I've STUDIED the nitrogen cycle extensively and its effect of the biosphere of my tank.

I KNOW this, I find it offensive that you point it out to me. Why are you telling me the obvious? Should you tell me that these frogs have lungs? That they're name is in fact of Ancient Greek origin and not Latin (like many sites claim).

I had to do a cycle with fish, it was either that or have them put down. I think I've reiterated this a few times now.

Again, you're correcting me and 'educating' me, by saying: 'I would do water changes and treat the water with Prime since it detoxifies ammonia and even nitrite, I've had good luck with that product.'

Sorry, but how do you know if I'm not already treating my water with Prime?

I appreciate the help, but do not patronise me please. This thread had only one question, which Geoff has answered.

I appreciate your concern for the frogs, but a fish-less cycle was out of the question. (why am I reiterating this?)

[mpmistr]

Yes, I know that Nitrite is more harmful than Ammonia and Nitrates. I've STUDIED the nitrogen cycle extensively and its effect of the biosphere of my tank.

I KNOW this, I find it offensive that you point it out to me. Why are you telling me the obvious? Should you tell me that these frogs have lungs? That they're name is in fact of Ancient Greek origin and not Latin (like many sites claim).

I had to do a cycle with fish, it was either that or have them put down. I think I've reiterated this a few times now.

Again, you're correcting me and 'educating' me, by saying: 'I would do water changes and treat the water with Prime since it detoxifies ammonia and even nitrite, I've had good luck with that product.'

Sorry, but how do you know if I'm not already treating my water with Prime?

I appreciate the help, but do not patronise me please. This thread had only one question, which Geoff has answered.

I appreciate your concern for the frogs, but a fish-less cycle was out of the question. (why am I reiterating this?)

Not really sure I am the confrontational one here. I was just trying to help and advise.

You obviously do not want help or advice and have mastered all things in regards to aquaria and herps.

Good luck to you and have a nice day.

[rodsboys]

I KNOW this

Why post here if no one can comment on your post? From the get-go you had a chip on your shoulder. You say you know it all and have done all this reasearch, but you mentioned several things that people with actual experience and knowledge would see as no-no's. Then you get pissy because someone tries to help you out? Not sure we need that sort of thing around here.
Going back to your first line in the first post, my answer to that is I hope not...

[Sunshine]

I have been sensing a lot of anger on this forum today. I know that it is easy to misinterpret tone when you are just reading what someone wrote. *sending out some love*
That sounds creepy...

[Jenste]

Going to jump in and go back to the frogs.

For now, and for a while, this tank will be fine for them. I do recommend a change of substrate to sand, bare bottomed, or large stones. Impaction is a risk with these little gluttons. The way they suck up their food like little vacuums it is very easy for a piece of gravel to go down in the excitement. Not only can this hurt their intestines, but it would be extremely painful to pass.

As far as diet, they have a better chance of growing into healthy frogs if fed the right food. It will also save you a headache later on of getting them to eat the Reptomin full time after being spoiled on the bloodworms. Some frogs will resist change and go on an eating strike. If they are already getting it and eating it, I would start cutting back on the bloodworms now.

If you luck out and end up with two males, this tank should be fine long term. Being considerably smaller than females, their bioload is not as significant as their big bodied ladies. If you have one or two females a 20 gallon long would be the best tank, if not larger.

I myself have been stuck cycling tanks with frogs. It is great that you have live plants in there but I recommend adding another water change midweek in just to reduce the amount of ammonia/nitrite in the water as their skin is extremely sensitive to burns.

And welcome to the forum! We love pictures here so please share photos of your frogs!

[Astyanax]

Why post here if no one can comment on your post? From the get-go you had a chip on your shoulder. You say you know it all and have done all this reasearch, but you mentioned several things that people with actual experience and knowledge would see as no-no's. Then you get pissy because someone tries to help you out? Not sure we need that sort of thing around here.
Going back to your first line in the first post, my answer to that is I hope not...

Trust me, you and that other fellow have tainted my view of this website, you more so. I wont be visiting this website after this post.

If you were to read my comments entirely, which I assume you haven't, you would see that I am quite comfortable with the basics (in theory, which I have already mentioned), however, applying theory to practise is always difficult.

I opened this thread asking one mere question about behaviour, not about anything else. I know nitrites are harmful, I didn't need somebody to point that out for me. If I genuinely knew that I was in the wrong, I would be the first to admit it and acknowledge my mistakes. Substrate for example, I acknowledge that my substrate isn't the best for them, same with tank size. I have no problem knowing that I need a bigger tank.

Yes, I am probably doing a few things that aren't the best for my frogs, finding and following the correct information is extremely hard, especially when it comes to fish-keeping. I've talked in person to an expert (he had about 40 year of experience and his grand-mother used to breed tropical fish in the 50's) whose advice differs from a few of the 'experts' on some online forums. Whose information does one follow? No matter what you do, there is always going to be somebody who corrects you because you're acting against what they do in their tank. Even in this thread I can see conflicting opinions regarding what is good and what not.

If I have made extreme no-no's which you have made an effort to point out, why do you people choose to patronise me, rather than kindly educate. I see that the first person who 'tried' to educate me had the best intentions in mind, but he must have thought that I was a complete idiot or ignorant.

Half of the problem stems from me not being entirely descriptive in the first post. I should have explained the entire situation before going on topic. But then again, why should I. Shouldn't you just answer the question and if you see something completely off, you briefly mention and comment on it, rather than solely commenting on other issues?

Apart from you and somewhat that other person, this community is great. All of the other posters have answered the question and have mentioned briefly a few key problems with my set up. I totally agree with them and I will take their information into account.

This is what I feel like:

Me: Hey, jow are you?

This community: Wow, do you realise the mistake you have made? How dare you spell 'how' with a 'J' and not 'H'. In fact, do you even know how to read? Do you know how the alphabet works. Actually, should I teach you about English grammar? It looks like this mistake in orthography shows how ignorant you are to the basics of the English language.

Me: It was a typo, I acknowledge my mistake, can you stop patronising me?

This community: Don't ever come back, we're only trying to help. You think you can speak English? Ha, how dare you make such a claim, you spelt 'how', an interrogative pronoun, with a 'J', blasphemy!


^ Slight hyperbole but I'm sure you get the drift.

Good bye, I'll stick to real expert's advice rather than on-line communities. They're too conflictive.

Thank you to the other posters in this thread, your help has been sound. I wish you and your pets good lives.