Hey there ^^, what tank is best for ACF, tall aquarium or long plastic box, more info inside:

[Necromencer]

Hey there FF community! I'm new here, so here goes my first new post. (beware long post)

I'm thinking of buying (saving!) a few frogs from my local pet shop, who has them all in one small tank in bad conditions. I'm thinking of buying three of them. They're albino and about 1 month old (max).

I have a cycled tank ready to be filled with these guys (my goldfish I had recently died prematurely, so I've left it cycling) but I don't know what is best for these little folk.

So here are the two candidates:

1) Aquarium tank

This tank is out of sunlight, in the corner of a bedroom (only used at night). It has an unusual hexameter from, and it is pretty tall (60cm perhaps) and not very wide (30cm-40cm). It can hold 55L, leaving about a 6inch gap from the top of the tank (sorry about the inaccurate measurements, I haven't got access to a ruler atm)

2) The plastic box

This box would be 100% waterproof, and as long as possible and high enough to keep the frogs from leaping out.


Now, these are the pro's and con's for each (in my opinion)

Tank

-Pro's: It would have a larger amount of water (10G approx), it was already cycled water (ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, has been this way for about 8 months). I can see what they're doing and how they are from my bed, where I spent most of my time when I get home from University)

-Con's: ACF like to hunt at the bottom of the tank, so wouldn't they be happier with a longer tank. Also, this tank may be a bit tall for them to get oxygen. Difficult to feed. If they dwell near the bottom, my arm will be needed to be in the tank to hand feed them.

Plastic Box

-Pro's: Possibly a better environment for them. Easy to feed.

-Con's: Will be difficult to see them (Bird's Eye view only). Less natural light.


Now before I go into other details, I'll explain that this is for the first year only. As soon as those frogs get bigger, they'll be getting a different and bigger tank. This question and thread is about what is best for them (froglets) for the first 8-9 months

Other issues I've come across:

Plants: I only have access to Elodea. I would like Common Duckweed for the top, I've read that the frogs would like that.

Filter: I have access to the 'Fluvial' range of filters. But this would be good for the tank, what about the box? Acf don't like water vibrations, but the vibrations in the water aren't that bad. Plus, it has all of the beneficial bacteriae. If I go for the box, would it be best to just do 50% water changes every week? (some say no filters should be used) Or do a combination of both?

Temperature: Here is were I am worried the most, I was keeping my goldfish at 15c. Yes, I know they're cold water but it is extremely cold in my house at the moment, if I'm not home it can reach about -1c. I've read that Goldfish, even though they're cold water fish, they thrive anywhere from 10-20c, so I stuck with 15c. What happened was that the heater broke (it had a thermostat and automatically turned the tank off then it reached 15c) When I come home a few days ago, the water reached 45c and I had a dead fish. I do NOT want this to happen again. What are trustworthy heaters? I think I need one for my frogs, they don't seem to do well in cold water.

Substrate: My local shop has access to small blue gravel. This would be okay for them while they're small, but they may eat them as they're old. What is better thus, sand or pebbles? What type of sand, would be best? Wouldn't it be best to keep it bare? Isn't that unnatural for them? What if I have sand, how would I do all of those water changes?

Food and Diet: I have access to frozen bloodworms, flakes and Reptomin. I've seen the reptomin pellets and they look rather large for the frogs. How would I feed them, chop them in half? I've seen conflicting views about bloodworms, some say they cause bloating, some say there's no proof. Some say they cause obesity, some don't. Would the best bet be feeding them reptomin as their staple and bloodworms as a treat? (once, twice a week)

Hiding places: I have plenty of these, terracotta pots, (elodea), etc. What else would I need?

Water: Will be tap water (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, very small amount of nitrates). If I go for the box, instead of starting the water cycle all over again, would it be possible to simply but my already cycled tank water into the box? If so, what would be the best way to do this? All tap water will be treated or left to stand 24h. If I go for the box, would it be best to keep treated tap water (no filter) and do regular water changes? I've seem some people do this.


So many questions, I don't know what would be the best set-up. Any reply would be great. Thanks!

[Jenste]

Welcome to Frog Forum! Going to touch on a few of your points.

Long tanks are preferable over tall tanks. For 3 frogs you will need about 20-30 gallons (average around 75-110 liters). You could do 3 frogs in a 20 gallon long tank if properly filtered. Always best to buy a tank for their adult sizes. It is easy for situations to arise when it comes time to upgrade and having to put it off can be detrimental to their development.

Moving old water to a new tank does absolutely nothing as you cannot cycle water. You build your bacteria colony inside the filter media, with a little bit clinging to the actual filter hosing and compartments.

Don't worry about vibrations from the filter, this is a ridiculous wivestale that spread as fact. It does not feel like a jackhammer and they do absolutely fine with filtration.

You do not need to hand feed them. It is often recommend to keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible due to risk of adding contaminants into the water. Also never feed them flakes. Reptomin come in multiple sizes or just break the piece with your fingers. Bloodworms are best as a treat.

Do not house them with gravel. It comes with a high risk of impaction. Stick to smooth sand or barebottomed. You can also use tiles or very large rocks but I prefer avoiding the rocks due to risk of weight shifting and waste getting trapped underneath and fouling. With sand you hover your waterchange siphon a few centimeters over the sand and gently swirl. The waste will be sucked up and the sand will stay down. A few grains may get lifted now or then but it will often fall back down.

Temperature is important and a steady temperature is extremely important. Keep it around the mid to low 70s *F.

[Necromencer]

Welcome to Frog Forum! Going to touch on a few of your points. Thanks!

Long tanks are preferable over tall tanks. For 3 frogs you will need about 20-30 gallons (average around 75-110 liters). You could do 3 frogs in a 20 gallon long tank if properly filtered. Always best to buy a tank for their adult sizes. It is easy for situations to arise when it comes time to upgrade and having to put it off can be detrimental to their development.


Thanks, I guess, but I already mentioned (twice I think) that this is only for a few months, and that I'll definitely be getting a bigger thank.

Moving old water to a new tank does absolutely nothing as you cannot cycle water. You build your bacteria colony inside the filter media, with a little bit clinging to the actual filter hosing and compartments.

What if I move everything, all of my media, that I have in my old tank (filter, substrate, decorations and water) Will that make no difference? I'm aware that the water itself doesn't harbour much of the bacteriae, so what would happen if I move everything to the new tank, which looks like a plastic box at the moment.

Don't worry about vibrations from the filter, this is a ridiculous wivestale that spread as fact. It does not feel like a jackhammer and they do absolutely fine with filtration. Nice to know!

You do not need to hand feed them. It is often recommend to keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible due to risk of adding contaminants into the water. Also never feed them flakes. Reptomin come in multiple sizes or just break the piece with your fingers. Bloodworms are best as a treat.

The reason I mentioned this was because some people were worried that their froglets were not eating and once of them died (possibly from starvation). If I were to hand feed, it would be with an aquarium glove and/or tweezers.

Do not house them with gravel. It comes with a high risk of impaction. Stick to smooth sand or barebottomed. You can also use tiles or very large rocks but I prefer avoiding the rocks due to risk of weight shifting and waste getting trapped underneath and fouling. With sand you hover your waterchange siphon a few centimeters over the sand and gently swirl. The waste will be sucked up and the sand will stay down. A few grains may get lifted now or then but it will often fall back down.

I like the idea of tiles, do they have to be of a special type of material? I don't want to foul the water (with clay for example). Understood that any tiles need to be cleaned entirely before they go into the water. In addition, I would even hand-cut said tile and drill holes into it and feed in the elodea. I'll look into aquarium sand. Thanks for the heads-up!

Temperature is important and a steady temperature is extremely important. Keep it around the mid to low 70s *F.

Indeed, water temperature fluctuations aren't good for them. But that doesn't solve the problem I had. I was keeping track of the temperature of my tank and when I fell asleep, it must have broken, because I woke up to dead fish and a tank with 45c. I believe it wasn't my fault, but the technology's


Thanks for the tips, but I still don't know if a plastic tank would be best (until I get a bigger tank of course!)

[mpmistr]

15C is a bit cold for these frogs, 18C-22C would be ideal. 45C is just crazy and I am not surprised that wiped your fish out.. that's what? Almost 115F? That has to be a broken heater causing that..

[Necromencer]

15C is a bit cold for these frogs, 18C-22C would be ideal. 45C is just crazy and I am not surprised that wiped your fish out.. that's what? Almost 115F? That has to be a broken heater causing that..

15c was the temperature at which I was keeping my goldfish, not my frogs (who I haven't bought yet)

I was aiming for 20c for the frogs.

Yes, I'm sure that it was the heater that killed the fish, water does not reach that high naturally.

Can you post a response related to the topic? Please?

[mpmistr]

.... just commenting on the malfunctioning heater. I do not understand the attitude problem with people on this forum lately.

[Gemma]

Hi Necromencer,

What if I move everything, all of my media, that I have in my old tank (filter, substrate, decorations and water) Will that make no difference? I'm aware that the water itself doesn't harbour much of the bacteriae, so what would happen if I move everything to the new tank, which looks like a plastic box at the moment.

Yes, this should work as you'll be adding all (or most) of the beneficial bacteria to the plastic box/tank as well.

I would definitely go with the plastic tank if I were you. I know you won't be able to see them very well through the plastic but the frogs should be much happier in there, and you said it's only temporary.

I was keeping track of the temperature of my tank and when I fell asleep, it must have broken, because I woke up to dead fish and a tank with 45c. I believe it wasn't my fault, but the technology's

What a horrible thing to happen What kind of heater were you using? I don't know much about different heaters to recommend a reliable one. Most of mine are Aquael and I've never had any problems with them. I have a Juwel one with a broken thermostat, but I bought it like that second hand so I'm not sure how old it was. The best thing to do might be to Google whatever heater you're thinking of buying and read through the reviews to check that problems with that particular heater aren't common.

Filter:

I have access to the 'Fluvial' range of filters. But this would be good for the tank, what about the box? Acf don't like water vibrations, but the vibrations in the water aren't that bad. Plus, it has all of the beneficial bacteriae. If I go for the box, would it be best to just do 50% water changes every week? (some say no filters should be used) Or do a combination of both?

As long as the filter is powerful enough for the volume of water in the tank then it should be fine. I don't think vibrations are as much of a problem as some websites say. I'd say a combination of the filter and water changes (although perhaps lower than 50%) would probably be best as the frogs are very messy.

Food and Diet:

I have access to frozen bloodworms, flakes and Reptomin. I've seen the reptomin pellets and they look rather large for the frogs. How would I feed them, chop them in half? I've seen conflicting views about bloodworms, some say they cause bloating, some say there's no proof. Some say they cause obesity, some don't. Would the best bet be feeding them reptomin as their staple and bloodworms as a treat? (once, twice a week)

Yes, I think that would be the best thing to do. You can chop Reptomin in half. I have to do this with my froglets. The pellets turn quite mushy in water anyway so the frogs should be able to bite bits off if they can't fit the pieces into their mouths whole.

Hiding places:

I have plenty of these, terracotta pots, (elodea), etc. What else would I need?

This sounds fine

Water:

Will be tap water (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, very small amount of nitrates). If I go for the box, instead of starting the water cycle all over again, would it be possible to simply but my already cycled tank water into the box? If so, what would be the best way to do this? All tap water will be treated or left to stand 24h. If I go for the box, would it be best to keep treated tap water (no filter) and do regular water changes? I've seem some people do this.

As you mentioned above, the water itself won't contain much of the beneficial bacteria so it would be best to move the filter etc to the plastic box tank as well. It would be possible to go without a filter and rely on water changes alone, but I think it would be far better for your frogs to use the filter from your other tank, and it will mean you have much less work to do to keep the tank clean. Also, I'm sure you already know this, but remember to temperature match all new water that you add to the tank.

I hope this helps.

[Necromencer]

@Gemma: Thanks for your post, I'll take all of this information into account, and I'll definitely be getting a box then (momentarily of course).

@Michael: I'm sorry if I gave off that tone. It's a personal obsession of mine. You see, I'm a moderator on a different forum (totally unrelated to frogs!), and I have to penalise users who make a thread go off-topic. It's a bad habit of mine when I visit other forums. I'm sorry.

[rodsboys]

I agree that the box is the way to go. Some of the best views can be from above. You can buy those storage boxes in various sizes for low prices, they also sell clear ones so you can see them from the side somewhat. A good point was made that it is temporary anyway.
Spend your money on a good filter so you can just transfer it over later. If you are short on funds, air driven sponge filters are a good option, they are cheap, easy to maintain, and can be transferred over and even used as a prefilter on a canister or hang on back filter.