Question about green apples

[BowserFrog]

Hello Just wondering if these are Ceratophrys joazeirensis x Ceratophrys cranwelli?

kingsnake.com Classifieds: Green Apple Pacman Frog captive born babies

[Pluke]

That looks exactly like the supposed Green Apple that I have, which members of this board identified for me. If that helps you at all.

[GrifTheGreat]

Yes, Ceratophrys Joazeirensis X C. Cranwelli are Green Apples.

[mikesfrogs]

Yes they are green apples. Most people including myself that have purchased the hybrids have lost them all before even sub-adult size. They have some health issues.

[Pluke]

Yes they are green apples. Most people including myself that have purchased the hybrids have lost them all before even sub-adult size. They have some health issues.

I'll vouch for this comment, I actually got the Green Apple I have now for free because it has health issues. It hasn't once ate on it's own and I basically have to help him shed. He's a beautiful frog, but he has bone problems, definitely has something wrong with his spine and has trouble moving his front legs, he flails, doesn't jump. I can't say this for all Green Apples, but mine definitely has issues.. Listen to mike, he knows his stuff.

BTW, Bowser I see that you live in Northville, have you ever been to the Taylor Reptile expo? I went to the July one.. it was pretty cool, not many pacman frogs but that's where I got my Green apple and Green Cranwelli. I didn't see any other kinds, but I was told they do show up there. The show is the second saturday of every month.

[IvoryReptiles]

We avoid the green apples......the pairing of the two is obviously not the best idea.
We've lost 2 out of 3 we started with....and the 3rd, well, we affectionately call it "Hatchet Face" now. Let me show you why....

This is Hatchet Face when it was called GrannySmith.....



And this is a few months later.........



No, it isn't MBD, it is what happens to the Green Apples........not to mention the scoliosis and paralysis of some of the legs. We raised it to this point and I am a sucker and since it is not showing signs of pain, I will continue to keep it as a pet my little Hatchet Face.

[mikesfrogs]

I have a few pets over here too. Its sad when they can't act normal and have health issues.

[BowserFrog]

Thats a real bummer. I know they are not very popular but I still enjoy hybrids

[Aaronhan]

all the green apples are from Ceratophrys joazeirensis x Ceratophrys cranwelli?

I think maybe some green apples , selective breeding from C.cranwelli...

[GrifTheGreat]

all the green apples are from Ceratophrys joazeirensis x Ceratophrys cranwelli?

I think maybe some green apples , selective breeding from C.cranwelli...

They're all a hybrid of Joazeirensis X Cranwelli. Mike is trying a breeding project to create Cranwellies that appear like green apples, but are not a hybrid.

[Aaronhan]

I see.. wow..
what's type of this green apples? I have no idea...

[motiszm]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

[IvoryReptiles]

I do not agree that all the BP morphs are monstrosities. They are not hybrids either. Some genetic pairings can have adverse effects, but I would simply avoid them myself.

I am not against the hybrids, I just prefer the frogs to be healthy. I also prefer the looks of the original strains to the hybrids. That is just a personal thing.....to each his/her own!

[GrifTheGreat]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

Refrase your words motizsm. Almost sounds like you're saying that Cranwellies are hybrids. You mean Fantasies and Green Apples right..

[GrifTheGreat]

I see.. wow..
what's type of this green apples? I have no idea...

Its still just called a Green Apple. This particular one has taken on more traites from the Joaz than the Cran. Reduced pattern is one of the effects of the crossing of the two.

[motiszm]

Sorry for the confusion, I love cranwellies! And I agree, to each his/her own, but I wasn't talking about the ball python morphs, I love the morphs. I was talking about Burm balls, woma balls, carpals, ball bloods, and other crazy crosses. Seeing something that looks like a woma but has a ball python head freaks me out lol.

[motiszm]

But anyway, sorry for the tangent, it's disappointing that people are selling these when they clearly have genetic problems. Hopefully they are just ignorant and not purposely selling animals that they know are going to die or have serious problems a few months after being sold.

[BowserFrog]

I think its good people know the downfall of purchasing a green apple, this was a very informative thread , thanks guys!

[Ra]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

Its generally frowned upon elsewhere in herpretoculture, but the DM Fantasy Frog was created to fill a need for frogs that had Cornuta features without Cornuta problems. I just recently got my first Fantasy Frog and its awesome. Fortunately we're starting to see more and more success with people breeding captive bred Cornuta babies, but seeing as to how the Fantasy Frog doesn't have health defects and deformities, why not keep it going.
I don't see the point in breeding these green apples, especially if they commonly have problems. Obviously it just doesn't work. If there aren't any problems keeping Caatingas, and Green Apples look so much like Caatingas, whats the point? Is it a hybrid just for the sake of a hybrid?
Personally I'd rather just have a nice Samurai Blue or a lime green albino Cranwell, at least I know its mouth wont fall off.

We should all start putting the word out on these defects, so that people hopefully stop making these frogs.

[GrifTheGreat]

Its generally frowned upon elsewhere in herpretoculture, but the DM Fantasy Frog was created to fill a need for frogs that had Cornuta features without Cornuta problems. I just recently got my first Fantasy Frog and its awesome. Fortunately we're starting to see more and more success with people breeding captive bred Cornuta babies, but seeing as to how the Fantasy Frog doesn't have health defects and deformities, why not keep it going.
I don't see the point in breeding these green apples, especially if they commonly have problems. Obviously it just doesn't work. If there aren't any problems keeping Caatingas, and Green Apples look so much like Caatingas, whats the point? Is it a hybrid just for the sake of a hybrid?
Personally I'd rather just have a nice Samurai Blue or a lime green albino Cranwell, at least I know its mouth wont fall off.

We should all start putting the word out on these defects, so that people hopefully stop making these frogs.

Sam Blues and Lime Greens can still have problems. From my understanding a lot of the Sam Blues have issues from way too much line breeding. I happen to have one now that has Scoliosis. Plus these are definitely not natural Cranwellies in my opinion. Nowhere on any of the true blood Ceratophrys is there Blue coloring or even seafoam greene at least not in any of the 8 known species. Clearly something else at work here.