Food For Thought: Rep Cal overcharging

[Greenlove]

So, I am what you would call a research nut. I love to research because I love to learn. Anyways, I was in the feed store the other day and came upon a product called oyster shell for chickens. I thought that was odd to feed chickens oyster shells, so I picked up the bag to read it. Apparently it makes their egg shells harder. Ingredients: 100% oyster shells. Then it hit me. Isn't Rep Cal calcium supplement made from 100% crushed oyster shells? Why, yes, indeed it is! So of course my brain starts working in overdrive when I look at the price. Holy cow! I can buy 5 lbs of this stuff for less than one container of Rep Cal, which is 4.1 ounces. The bag also states that it has been heat treated for purity, which is good. Now the only problem is, is getting the small flakes to powder form. Fret not my fellow frog lover, the mortar and pestle have been around for thousands of years, so grind away! The ground up oyster shells from the bag look the same as the Rep Cal, huh, imagine that. This is the kind of stuff that really gets me boiling! People that try to sell something for a dollar that's worth a penny. By the way, the 5 lb. bag is 5 dollars and a 50 lb bag I think was about 14 dollars. At this rate it's even cheaper than using the powdered milk in the cricket food recipe on this site. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but at this point it's really looking like Rep Cal is drastically over charging for their product. In case anyone is wondering, oyster shells are 95% calcium carbonate. Guaranteed analysis on bag of oyster shell: calcium min 33% max 38%. Rep Cal min 35% max 40%. Does anyone know of a reason why we shouldn't use this instead of Rep Cal to dust feeders with?

[SethD]

So, I am what you would call a research nut. I love to research because I love to learn. Anyways, I was in the feed store the other day and came upon a product called oyster shell for chickens. I thought that was odd to feed chickens oyster shells, so I picked up the bag to read it. Apparently it makes their egg shells harder. Ingredients: 100% oyster shells. Then it hit me. Isn't Rep Cal calcium supplement made from 100% crushed oyster shells? Why, yes, indeed it is! So of course my brain starts working in overdrive when I look at the price. Holy cow! I can buy 5 lbs of this stuff for less than one container of Rep Cal, which is 4.1 ounces. The bag also states that it has been heat treated for purity, which is good. Now the only problem is, is getting the small flakes to powder form. Fret not my fellow frog lover, the mortar and pestle have been around for thousands of years, so grind away! The ground up oyster shells from the bag look the same as the Rep Cal, huh, imagine that. This is the kind of stuff that really gets me boiling! People that try to sell something for a dollar that's worth a penny. By the way, the 5 lb. bag is 5 dollars and a 50 lb bag I think was about 14 dollars. At this rate it's even cheaper than using the powdered milk in the cricket food recipe on this site. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but at this point it's really looking like Rep Cal is drastically over charging for their product. In case anyone is wondering, oyster shells are 95% calcium carbonate. Guaranteed analysis on bag of oyster shell: calcium min 33% max 38%. Rep Cal min 35% max 40%. Does anyone know of a reason why we shouldn't use this instead of Rep Cal to dust feeders with?

If you wish to grind it fine enough it should work fine although it will not contain vitamin D3. Very few people are likely to go through enough calcium supplement to make it worth the trouble though.

[poison beauties]

while some of these supplements are pricey it is due to the shelf life. Many of them lose their quality after 6 months. This causes alot of it to be wasted and Im sure the companies feel the bite. There is no one and all supplement that will do it all. making your own wont help either as if it was easy and effective we would all do it. I use a variety of supplements and rotate them. You should be worried about vitA and other nutrients as well. not just calcium.

Michael

[Greenlove]

while some of these supplements are pricey it is due to the shelf life. Many of them lose their quality after 6 months. This causes alot of it to be wasted and Im sure the companies feel the bite. There is no one and all supplement that will do it all. making your own wont help either as if it was easy and effective we would all do it. I use a variety of supplements and rotate them. You should be worried about vitA and other nutrients as well. not just calcium.

Michael

Thank you for your reply. I know that you need other vitamins and minerals as well. I am only talking about calcium at this time though. Why should I be worried about vitamin A? I was told to use Herptivite (which has no vitamin A) so my frogs would have no chance of vitamin A toxicity because Herptivite uses beta carotene which is converted into vitamin A in a regulated way. Have I been misinformed?

[Greenlove]

I will clarify why I was inquiring about using the oyster shells from the feed store. I am raising crickets. The cricket recipe that I use calls for powdered milk (to boost the calcium) but I chose to use Rep Cal calcium supplement because I had a surplus of it from a friend. My crickets eat A LOT! Which, in turn, makes me go through a lot of calcium supplement. Either way, milk or calcium supplement, can get expensive. I know that most people would not go through enough to make it worth their time and effort, but for those of us who are raising feeders and add it to their feeder chow I thought it might help with cost. Thanks to everyone who replies to this post.

[SethD]

Why should I be worried about vitamin A? I was told to use Herptivite (which has no vitamin A) so my frogs would have no chance of vitamin A toxicity because Herptivite uses beta carotene which is converted into vitamin A in a regulated way. Have I been misinformed?

It is considered questionable if amphibians convert beta carotene into vitamin A at all. If they do they are not particularly good at it. Vitamin A toxicity is not a serious risk unless your heavily overdosing. Better to use a supplement that contains a reasonable amount of vitamin A than one that only has beta carotene.

[SethD]

I will clarify why I was inquiring about using the oyster shells from the feed store. I am raising crickets. The cricket recipe that I use calls for powdered milk (to boost the calcium) but I chose to use Rep Cal calcium supplement because I had a surplus of it from a friend. My crickets eat A LOT! Which, in turn, makes me go through a lot of calcium supplement. Either way, milk or calcium supplement, can get expensive. I know that most people would not go through enough to make it worth their time and effort, but for those of us who are raising feeders and add it to their feeder chow I thought it might help with cost. Thanks to everyone who replies to this post.

Are you talking about gut loading right before feeding them out? If your talking about feeding them lots of calcium as part of their standard diet it will not improve them nutritionally and tends to be unhealthy. To much calcium in the diet of crickets tends to kill a lot of them while giving no positive benefit.

[Greenlove]

Better to use a supplement that contains a reasonable amount of vitamin A than one that only has beta carotene.

What are the names of the supplements you are referring to? I would like to read about them. Are you saying that Herptivite is not a good supplement? For a person that is new to frogs all of this can be very confusing at times.

[Greenlove]

Are you talking about gut loading right before feeding them out? If your talking about feeding them lots of calcium as part of their standard diet it will not improve them nutritionally and tends to be unhealthy. To much calcium in the diet of crickets tends to kill a lot of them while giving no positive benefit.

I do not "gut load" my crickets prior to feeding them to my frogs because they have food available to them all day, every day. My cricket diet is as follows: Half a blender of ground up cat chow, 10% calcium supplement (Rep Cal), 1% Herptivite. This recipe and measurements are from the Culturing Crickets article. They have this available to them all the time. Then, every other day I give them a huge handful of leafy greens (usually romaine because they like it the best), and at least four of the following: carrots, potatoes, cauliflower, broccoli, tomato, red grapes, apple and cantaloupe. I have read that it was good for crickets to have the extra calcium because they are naturally high in phosphorus and that too much phosphorus is bad for your amphibians, (something about a ratio of 1:1 Calcium to phosphorus?). What are your thoughts on that?

[Paul Rust]

Essentially what you are doing is gut-loading because the crickets are being fed a constant diet of nutritional food. The mix that you use to feed the crickets is very good for them and your frogs and I don't lose many crickets at all with it, in fact the only crickets that I lose regularly are the adult breeders that reach the end of their life-cycle.

[Greenlove]

Essentially what you are doing is gut-loading because the crickets are being fed a constant diet of nutritional food. The mix that you use to feed the crickets is very good for them and your frogs and I don't lose many crickets at all with it, in fact the only crickets that I lose regularly are the adult breeders that reach the end of their life-cycle.

Thank you for the gut loading info Paul. I didn't realize that "gut loading" was also known as their everyday diet . I have only been using your mix for a few weeks but it seems to be working just fine. I can tell you this, I put it in their container beside the commercial diet I was trying to use up and they literally ran over to your mix. I think they are actually eating more, now that I have stopped using the store bought stuff. I have only lost a few crickets since I started raising them almost two months ago. So far so good!

[SethD]

What are the names of the supplements you are referring to? I would like to read about them. Are you saying that Herptivite is not a good supplement? For a person that is new to frogs all of this can be very confusing at times.

Repashy ICB is one, there are a few others that do too but repashy is one of the better ones. As far herptivite, it isn't that it is a bad supplement per se, it just isn't a complete enough supplement for amphibians if used alone or only in conjunction with rep cal.

[SethD]

I do not "gut load" my crickets prior to feeding them to my frogs because they have food available to them all day, every day. My cricket diet is as follows: Half a blender of ground up cat chow, 10% calcium supplement (Rep Cal), 1% Herptivite. This recipe and measurements are from the Culturing Crickets article. They have this available to them all the time. Then, every other day I give them a huge handful of leafy greens (usually romaine because they like it the best), and at least four of the following: carrots, potatoes, cauliflower, broccoli, tomato, red grapes, apple and cantaloupe. I have read that it was good for crickets to have the extra calcium because they are naturally high in phosphorus and that too much phosphorus is bad for your amphibians, (something about a ratio of 1:1 Calcium to phosphorus?). What are your thoughts on that?

If that diet doesn't cause you any issues than well and good. If on the other hand you start seeing a lot of unexplained deaths or see crickets having trouble molting you might want to reduce the calcium content. While extra calcium tends to be good for reptiles or frogs it tends to be not so good for insects and often causes molting or sudden death issues. That is why a lot of people prefer not to feed their crickets or roaches extra calcium unless gut loading shortly before feeding them out. If they live and grow fine for you on that diet though then fine, there is no right or wrong way to do it if your getting the results your looking for.

[Paul Rust]

Repashy ICB is one, there are a few others that do too but repashy is one of the better ones. As far herptivite, it isn't that it is a bad supplement per se, it just isn't a complete enough supplement for amphibians if used alone or only in conjunction with rep cal.

Seth, I have never used Repashy. Is it an all in one dusting supplement?

[Paul Rust]

Thank you for the gut loading info Paul. I didn't realize that "gut loading" was also known as their everyday diet . I have only been using your mix for a few weeks but it seems to be working just fine. I can tell you this, I put it in their container beside the commercial diet I was trying to use up and they literally ran over to your mix. I think they are actually eating more, now that I have stopped using the store bought stuff. I have only lost a few crickets since I started raising them almost two months ago. So far so good!

This is great to hear, thank you for the feedback on that.

[SethD]

Seth, I have never used Repashy. Is it an all in one dusting supplement?

Repashy is a product line and not all of the supplements are all in one supplements, however Repashy ICB is and it works pretty well in that role. It smells good too, almost makes me want to try it. lol