My toads demise .. :(

[kellie]

Hi guys. sadly, my baby toad died tonight. i'm not sure why. he's been "out of the water" for like 3 - 4 weeks. i was feeding him fruit flies, but he seemed to be going through them SO fast. but, i wasn't 100% sure that he was eating them or they were escaping. so, after i was sure he was eating them, i knew he was going through them fast. so, i bought a few teeny crickets and put him, the crickets and the small "hermit crab" sponge soaked with water from his enclosure in a small tupperware container .. and i even sprayed with a TEENY bit of water with his mister bottle. the cotainer was too tall for him or the crickets to jump out. so, i watched them for a few minutes and he seemed content .. hopping around and what not. then when i came back about an hour later, he was DEAD. but, it was was weird, cuz it looked like he shriveled up or dried out. what happened? my poor toadie.

[John]

That's a real mystery. I honestly don't know where to start with guessing I'm afraid. In any case, I'm sorry for your loss .

[Jace]

So sorry to hear about your little toad. Did the container get too hot? I lost a hamster in a plastic setup like that once. My thoughts are with you...

[Ebony]

Sorry for your loss kellie.

[Kurt]

So sorry.

[kellie]

hi there. thanks for your condolences guys. my son was more upset than i was. i still can't figure it out! the container didn't get too hot. even though it's hot outside, i have my AC on at a pretty constant 70-74F. and the container didn't have a lid. i just don't get it. the only thing i can think of, is that it was stress related .. new container, he's never seen crickets before, etc. who knows. does anyone have any suggestions for what kind of toad/frog would be a good starter for us to try? the little one that died was one of a bunch of tads that i scooped out of a stream by my house. i released all of the others after they morphed, except 2. and they both died. i was doing everything right! my son seems really interested in them .. so, i'd like to try again - the right way. can't wait to hear your suggestions! oh well - talk soon everyone!

[Jace]

With a new little froglet, we may never know. I feel so bad for your son! However, if you are interested in getting a new toad, I would really suggest Fire Belly Toads. They are smaller, but very active, night or day. They eat well and are tough little ones. Neatest thing, too: the males call constantly and sound like dogs barking in the distance. It's a really endearing sound. You can set several up in a 10 gallon and have hours of entertainment. Check out the care sheet on them. Best of luck to you and your son!

[kellie]

thanks jo-anna. i'll check out some fire bellies. a pet store near my house has some, i think and a white's tree frog too. i'm nervous about the white's because they seem SOOO prone to being overweight. and i'd hate to feed one to death too. LOL i'd love a red eyed TF though. they're really cute. i'd love to get a bearded dragon or an iguana .. but, i don't have room for an iguana to grow properly. maybe someday ..

[Kurt]

Trust me you don't want an iguana, they get big and nasty.

[Deku]

thanks jo-anna. i'll check out some fire bellies. a pet store near my house has some, i think and a white's tree frog too. i'm nervous about the white's because they seem SOOO prone to being overweight. and i'd hate to feed one to death too. LOL i'd love a red eyed TF though. they're really cute. i'd love to get a bearded dragon or an iguana .. but, i don't have room for an iguana to grow properly. maybe someday ..

I agree with kurt. You should steer clear of an iguana. Even if you have the room. The cost of owning one is much more than a dog. I think its 10x more. Because of the feedings. You have to feed it A LOT of different foods. I heard they need ALOT of food. A LOT of room. They are extremely delicate in general. Those who do make it into adult hood are probably not in shape as youd think. Babies need to be in a 10gallon tank. Juvies need to be moved up to a 40breeder. Then adults to a 6 foot long x 6foot wide x 6foot tall enclosure. NO LESS, Ived talked to some of the breeders, and people who have way more superior knowledge than me in lizards. Because originally I wanted one myself and every single person advised me not to. Except the newbies in the care whom had no idea how to care for them and only suggested them because they thought they look cool. As "radical" they look, these animals require extensive care. Maybe Iam making it seem like their care is more than it really is. Well in my opinion they are just generally not good general pets for normal people to keep. By normal I mean people with limited space/money/time etc. My brothers themselves had these. When we used to live in puertorico there was this small petshop that had literary a whole stack of them(i counted once 50 of them seriously....) they were up for 3-5 bucks a baby. 6bucks a juvenile and 10-20bucks an adult. The adults where in seperate place. They kept them in bird cages. Why? I dont really know. This is going to sound racist towards myself but I believe people of my kind arent very "pet" smart. Anywho getting a bit sidetracked. Yes I personally feel you will get a better joy out of bearded dragon. You know what? Even a water dragon is 10x better than an iguana. Not only that they look similar. SOOO if its by look then yeah. Also adult iguanas can get a bit nasty if not handled properly or regulary. Trust me their whips hurt like heck. I saw a guy get whipped in the store. It was kinda amusing to me because I was still young. Anywho.... If you are looking for another pet that isnt amphibian stick to these:
-Geckos(cresteds, leopards, fat tails. Avoid leachies. Leachies tend to be a bit advanced due to their intelligence. My friend breeds them.)
-Bearded dragon(requires a 75gallon for a fully grown adult. If I remember they get up to a foot long. From what I remember seeing. Maybe a bit longer? Anywho they are tame lil buggers)
-Water dragons(They look like green iguanas but easier to care for. Same tank size like the beardies but half of it has to be land and half water. By land I mean it has to have dirt in the land side and in the aquatic side needs a filter. Lots of climbing branches. Eats insects as staple diet and supplements are veggies(leafy prefered) and small percent of fruit. Dont feed mice or rodents or fish. They eat crickets, earthworms, butterworms, and goliath worms. Avoid mealies and supers)
-Snakes



Things to avoid:
-Turtles/tortoises(I keep box turtles, and aquatic turtles. Let me put it like this. ALOT of money. ALOT of work/time. Alot of space. And they are messy and normally people tend to get bored with them. Personally I dont get bored. But I see alot of people get bored.)
-Chameleons(They are beautiful, but not for beginners, delicate, time consuming, expensive, and alot of care needs to be invested and space)
-Iguanas(Aggressive unless handled constantly, require lots of attention, needs lots of food and variety, lots of space. Keeping one is like almost keeping a 5 year old child.)
-Large monitors(Not bad pets, but not for beginners either. Aggressive, space consuming, time consuming, money consuming).


For frogs Iam pretty sure alot of people can suggest you some.
Personally Ived come to like the fire bellied toads. Even if they are common. Because the fact is they are one of the most active of frogs. African clawed frogs maybe another good opt. for you. Theres also tree frogs. Heck even toads to be honest. Honestly, baby toads are extremely fragile. Even if you keep them right there is a chance that some may just not make it. Even with propriate conditions. In the wild only a certain percentage make it. Thats why when people breed toads/frogs/treefrogs. They keep alot of the tadpoles. Because some will die even if you give optimal conditions. Animals in general are like that. Well thats my belief. Sure some have experience with their own baby animals. But in general there is a chance of death for pretty much any baby animal. Except mamals. like there is. But not as high as amphibians/reptiles/fish. Sometimes even avians have that problem. So its not your fault. To be completely honest, you did great. Don't let it get you down. He/she will be greatly missed. If you decided to stick to frogs Iam sure people in here will also assist you. If you wanna still go for an amphibian but a little different. Take a gander at fire belly newts. Axolotls, mudpuppies and sirens. In my opinion are good animals to keep as well. Good luck and keep us posted. Hope you feel better and hope this helps.

[Deku]

Ps. about over feeding and feeding.
Tips:
-Buy a journal/notebook and write down its feeding schedule.
-Follows the schedule and try to make a varied diet as much as possible. But remember not to over do it with the feedings.

Id say for juvenile frogs Id feed them every other day unless they are recently morphed in which my opinion would be feed it every day but only ONCE a day in a light feeding.
Adults frogs/toads should be fed every 2 days.


As for reptiles

Snakes feed once every 6 days for babies. Juveniles feed every 7-8 days. Adults feed every 10-11 days.

-Lizards: Babies feed once a day(hatchlings/yearlings). Juveniles(2-4years old depend on species and longevity) feed every other day. Adults feed every 2-3 days.
-Turtles/tortoises: Babies feed every other day. Juvis feed every two days. Adults feed every 3 days. Keep a strict regiment. Turtles are prone to over weight. Feed only what they can eat in a time limit(1hour at most) for aquatic turtles. For land turtles(box t urtles) feed em only two food items relative to their size depending on age and size of animal. Tortoises should have a constant supply of hay, as for veggies feed every couple of days. Treat tortoises somewhat like a rabbit in that sense but not really.

For any animal that is carnivorous/omnivorous. Prey item should easily fit in their mouths without struggle. Like an adult snake should be fed juvenile mice. Rather than one adult mouse. Because the larger the food the more discouraging it is to feed. Just something I noticed on all animals. someone may have something to add to it but yeah. this is what ived found when working with certain animals.

[kellie]

nasty? really? i knew that they can grow really big, but i didn't know that they could become mean. all of the ones i've ever met have been friendly and pretty tame. thanks for the tip.

Trust me you don't want an iguana, they get big and nasty.

[kellie]

-Geckos(cresteds, leopards, fat tails. Avoid leachies. Leachies tend to be a bit advanced due to their intelligence. My friend breeds them.)

hi kevin .. that was some awesome info. thanks so much. but, what is it about a leachie's intelligence that makes them so advanced?

[Deku]

hi kevin .. that was some awesome info. thanks so much. but, what is it about a leachie's intelligence that makes them so advanced?

Well what my friend/breeder had said:
-Extreme escape artists. Leave the cage open EVEN for a second and voila they're gone(even when you close the cage they still find ways to get out).
-Attitude: generally tame, yet they can at any minute escape from your hand and run off. That was in my opinion smart. Because they are hard to catch once they are escaped. I tried catching one myself, maybe Iam not fast enough? xD nah. Iam too hyper not to be fast. ;]
-Picky: They are generally picky about their habitat. If its not as close as possible as to where they are normally found they wont eat.

Theres probably more. But thats off top of my head what I remember. :U He had said this to me a while ago before I went to the reptile expo. Cause I was personally going to buy a new reptile/amphibian. I asked for his advice. He kept trying to get me to buy a gecko. Personally I only like a few geckos. I like fat tails, leachies and cresteds. Every other gecko pretty much kills it for me in the interest level and appeal. When I had said that to him he pretty much freaked out on me and gave me a lecture of how they are the worst begginner geckos. Currently he has 3 of them. He has pretty much every gecko I can think of. I think he was the first person to tame down a tokay gecko. He gave me this method about wearing gloves constantly and picking them up. That eventually they tame down. Again I forgot his details. Personally thats a thing I am abit skeptical about. But Iam not the gecko expert. I know some knowledge about em through him and books, but thats about it. I know more about turtles/tortoises. Its one of the things I focus down upon. I was keeping a texas map turtle, they're not that easy to care for. Constant water monitoring(daily) for ph, ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates(which eat calcium, which is bad) and temps. For no sudden fluctuations. She was doing fine I guess untill an accident. Her shell was so perfect. I do miss her. Anywho getting off topic there. I mainly focus on shelled animals, sirens, toads, and some frogs. I guess Iam very particular? Oh I also focus on rabbits, dogs(I trained my friends sisters dog, and all my past foster dogs. I used to foster dogs and then give them to a non kill shelter.), and insects(especially ants, mantids, slugs/snails-yes I know its not an insect its a mollusk. Butterflies and moths.) As for avians I like doves and pidgeons. xD Iam the weird one I guess. If you want something that looks like an iguanid then go for a water dragon. You just need a large tank though. 75g is what I remember hearing is good for them. You should do more research on them if interested. I find repticzone good for some caresheets(forums). Theres also geckos. I suggest the basic ones like house geckos, fat tailed gecko, leopard gecko, and crested.

[Deku]

nasty? really? i knew that they can grow really big, but i didn't know that they could become mean. all of the ones i've ever met have been friendly and pretty tame. thanks for the tip.

Normally they are nasty. They CAN be trained. But it takes alot of dedication. Let me put it like this. Owning a green iguana is exactly like owning a mackaw(if I spelt that right). Not saying in they have same care. But I mean difficulty. both are like children. Lets just say you dont want to take the chance of being bit by a 2-3 foot long iguana or being snapped at by its THICK tail.

[Kurt]

Iguanas have a nasty bite and can be quite aggressive, especially the males. Captive breed tokays have a tendency to be very tame and handable, unlike their wild-caught brethren. Kevin McCurley (N.E.R.D./Zoo Creatures) breeds high end tokays. I especially love his "powder blue" ones. I also love Phelsuma madagascariensis, P. cepediana, and Lygodactylus williamsi.

[Julia]

Bearded Dragons are amazing pets. I have two, and they have tons of personality for a lizard. I took my bearded dragons to the school where I work and they were wonderful with the kids. The only thing about these guys is they need a large enclosure, and proper lighting which should be replaced every 6 months. If you want a pet that you can handle Bearded Dragons are your best bet.

[Julia]

Also regarding your toad...did you use any sort of chemical on/around or in the container?

[atlantiselliott]

I'm so sorry for your lost I hope you get a new one