Mixing Species

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm sure it will come to no surprise to anyone when I say that I am a huge fan of multi species enclosure, IF they are done well and properly. Sadly, most are not. I have done a lot of research on this topic and spoke with a lot of very experienced people about it. There are several keys to doing it properly, with space being the number one thing that most people bring up. But I have seen small 29g multi species enclosures that were successful. I have also seen large enclosures that were not. A lot of it goes towards species selection and research. But much more important than anything else, and very few people talk about this, is experience. I will give an example:

About a year ago, I had planned on building an enclosure for mantellas and a small uroplatus gecko species. I had no doubt in my mind that I could build a very dynamic enclosure since I was working with a 125 gallon tank. I had broken sight lines designed in, water supply, and even a basking spot for the gecko. This was all fine and dandy, and then I realized, while talking with my friend who breeds uroplatus, that I had zero experience with this species. In fact, I had limited experience with the mantellas. How was I going to know something was wrong in the tank, if there was? I wouldn't. But a very experienced keeper would, and that was not me. So the plan got scrapped. I may build it a decade down the road, but lost likely, not.

My point being that only the most experienced in whatever animals are chosen to go into a multi species tank should even attempt it.

You asked about shrimp and minnows in a water feature, they should not be an issue. I have kept shrimp and fish in water feature with my frogs with no problems whatsoever. Just remember to take I to account the size of the fully grown fish and the amount of USABLE aquatic area. Just because you pour 8 gallons of water into a tank with a water feature does not mean you are working with that much usable area for the aquatic critters.

Just my $.02. Hope it helps.

[Chris Davis]

Thanks Bill! That does help. It'll be awhile till I give it a real go. I'm still just getting into hobby and I'm trying to do as much research as I can do!

[TKexotics]

I'm sure it will come to no surprise to anyone when I say that I am a huge fan of multi species enclosure, IF they are done well and properly. Sadly, most are not. I have done a lot of research on this topic and spoke with a lot of very experienced people about it. There are several keys to doing it properly, with space being the number one thing that most people bring up. But I have seen small 29g multi species enclosures that were successful. I have also seen large enclosures that were not. A lot of it goes towards species selection and research. But much more important than anything else, and very few people talk about this, is experience. I will give an example:

About a year ago, I had planned on building an enclosure for mantellas and a small uroplatus gecko species. I had no doubt in my mind that I could build a very dynamic enclosure since I was working with a 125 gallon tank. I had broken sight lines designed in, water supply, and even a basking spot for the gecko. This was all fine and dandy, and then I realized, while talking with my friend who breeds uroplatus, that I had zero experience with this species. In fact, I had limited experience with the mantellas. How was I going to know something was wrong in the tank, if there was? I wouldn't. But a very experienced keeper would, and that was not me. So the plan got scrapped. I may build it a decade down the road, but lost likely, not.

My point being that only the most experienced in whatever animals are chosen to go into a multi species tank should even attempt it.

You asked about shrimp and minnows in a water feature, they should not be an issue. I have kept shrimp and fish in water feature with my frogs with no problems whatsoever. Just remember to take I to account the size of the fully grown fish and the amount of USABLE aquatic area. Just because you pour 8 gallons of water into a tank with a water feature does not mean you are working with that much usable area for the aquatic critters.

Just my $.02. Hope it helps.

Hey Bill, what kind of Uroplatus did you wanted to keep?
If there is something most Uroplatus don't need it's extra heating, so a basking spot might do more bad than good with these guy's.
Also, keeping in mind their verocious nature, we think mixing Mantella with Uroplatus will only work with animals of the ebenaui group.

We agree with you that most species should not be attemted to be housed together, however in some occasions it might yust work though.

we have kept our Epipedobates tricolor with Lygodactylus williamsi and Lepidodactylus lugubris for a year or twoo, without having any problems. All breeding and doing great.
We only seperated them because we like biotope tanks, with plant's and animals all comming from the same area, and they don't fit in their, maybe we will try some Gonatodes species with them in the future.

After studying the behavior of our Boophis rappiodes for some time now, we recentley decided to put them in a mixed enclosure with our Ebenavia inunguis group, it's been working great so far, but not neirly lang enough to give any important info abouth it. We will keep you posted abouth this co-habitation and how it works out for us.
Ofcourse, we camp in front of the enclosure now to watch their behavior and emergency enclosures are up and running in case something should go wrong.
Plan is to build them a 60w-32d-40h in the future and maybe even try mixing in some sort of Mantella species and even some Phelsuma klemmeri, but first let's see how this works out.

At this time we are also working on a 32w-32d-71h that will house one of our pairs of Phelsuma grandis, and will also be housing some Dyscophus guinetti at the bottom.

We also keep a mixed enclosure with Ptychozoon kuhli and Cyrtodactylus fumosus, works great since they both inhabit different niches of their tank, but no frogs in that one, the gecko's might become to agressive for that.

We strongly agree with you do that mixing species should not be tried without any type of experience and knowledge abouth every animals individual needs and their husbandry in captivity though!!!

We don't have ton's of experience with frogs yet, but before we attempt mixing them we try to learn as much as we can abouth them.
Our animals always go trough a quarantaine period of at least 3 month's where they are kept individual.., after that they are kept for at least a few month's in a single species enclosure so we can study their behaviour and their needs.
Also, we do know our gecko's and their behavior so according to that , together with the part of them co-existing in the wild we decide if we want to try and keep a multiple species enclosure or not.

However, if there is anything that makes us think even the slitest problem could happen , we will not try it!

For example, Gekko gecko (Tokay) that has a very wide range in South-east Asia, and Gekko vittatus are both found in the same biotope in New-Guinea as some Litoria species, so in a large enclosure one could try and house these species together, in fact, we have seen people try it...
However, the gecko's of the Gekko genus are known to be pretty intolerate towards anything that's trying to invade their territory/nesting sites.., and they take down very large prey!
They also inhabit the higher ground, as the Litorea does.., and we have seen them take very large prey too.
Not in our wildest dreams would we ever try a mix like that!

We also agree with you abouth the fish part, it's not yust abouth throwing some fish and shrimp into the water feature, the water quality has to be yust right, and the needs of the aquatiq animals also have to be met, the same as for the other animals in the enclosure.

Greetings, Tamara & Kevin.

(Note to myself, get some English lessons!!!)