Clawed Frog Bloated

[rob2000]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

[mpmistr]

HI all,
I didnt have the test kit for nitrites but I did test for ammonia, nitrates and pH.
Nitrates were 0
Ammonia was just about .25ppm (slightly green)
pH was acidic.

Seems that you were all correct and the water quality is horrible. I had no idea that such a small frog could make the water change so fast and thought that the weekly change was ok. I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time.

Thoughts?

Never use soap on an aquarium the residue lingers for a very long time and is toxic to frogs and fish. The best way to clean out an aquarium for use again is bleach, rinse it out a ton (and I mean a lot), then use a dechlorinater.

Have you considered picking up a cheapo 10 gallon tank at Walmart of PetCo? I think for about 10 bucks that would give your frog enough space.

[rob2000]

So Frogee is in his new home. I need to figure out the best filter for the 5 gal (that was the best tank I had to upgrade to tonight so that he got out of that crappy water) such as underwater or cascading and plants. I will consider the 10gal. He seems to be ok so far. He went into his little cave rock for about 3 min and now is out in the front looking for food. I did not add salt back into the tank. Let me know if you guys feel that I should because of the bloating or if I should leave it out.
Ill continue to feed froggee bites for now and will leave out the freeze dried blood worms until bloating subsides a bit (hopefully).
Will keep you posted tomorow.

[SwimminSteve]

Hi Rob,

I'm glad to see that you are taking steps in the right direction for your frog. I would really advise buying the 10gal tank. I remember buying one for around $15 at walmart and I've seen them on craigslist for less than that even. The reason that we are pushing for a 10gal is that you will have a hard time keeping adequate water conditions in a smaller tank. The cycling process and maintenance will be easier in a 10gal than a 5.5gal. Do you have a lid on your tank? That is a must, because these frogs are surprisingly good at escaping.

As for a filter: Since you are still considering upgrading to a 10gal, I would advise that you get a filter large enough for a 10, but small enough for a 5.5. My personal favorite filter for a small tank is the Whisper i series by Tetra. Even a whisper 10i (about $10 on amazon) would be hugely beneficial to your frog's health. Once your filter is up and running you would only need to do 25% water changes each week (it's so easy).

I prefer bare-bottom tanks, because the upkeep is much simpler. I may have missed it if you mentioned what kind of frog pellets you were feeding, but I prefer HBH frog and tadpole bites and Reptomin turtle sticks. These are a healthy staple diet for your frog. Frozen/thawed brine shrimp and earthworms would be great occasional treats. I would definitely stay away from anything with bloodworms, since these are a potential contributor to bloat.

Once your frog's environment has improved, we would be happy to address treating the bloat. I'm optimistic that some of it will subside when his water conditions improve, but you shouldn't expect to see a 100% recovery. He will probably always have some subcutaneous fluid trapped from this, but I'm hoping that it will decrease to the point where it causes him no discomfort.

Rob, I hope you can understand the reactions of the folks on the forum. You came here, a place where self-admitted frog nerds come together, for help. Of course everyone is quite passionate about frog care and wants to see the best possible treatment of them. As an animal-lover, I'm sure you can see why people put the animal's needs before the feelings of its owner. I can promise you that no one intended to insult you or question your dedication to your pet, they just hoped that strong words would jolt you into action .

[rob2000]

HI Swimmin Steve,
Thanks for your advice. I think I have a whisper filter but I had it on the tank with the sick fish. Would I use bleach on this component too without the media and just get new media? Just want to make sure I dont add more bad bacteria etc to the tank by accident.

I am feeding Zoo Med Aquatic Frog and Tadpole Food (micro pellets). I am just concerned that Frogee can't find it as easily since the tank is bigger and he has to go further to the top. There is a filter hole which I covered (until I get the filter straightened out tomorrow) with paper and tape so I think it will be ok.

I can say that so far so good... Frogee doesnt seem to mind the new tank and once I get him some more plants or little enclosures etc I think he will be even happier. I can always move that stuff to the 10gal. I will continue to monitor the water with the testers until then to make sure it isnt an issue in the meantime.
I put a towel over the tank for now so that he has some shade instead of light and he can hide a bit more since there isnt too much in the tank right now. I did take the advise of others in the forum and I got white sand for the bottom. Will definitely leave the bloodworms out of the diet.
Hopefully he will feel a little better soon. I definitely understand the concern of others. To be honest I think the 3rd response or so upset me the most and I felt attacked and belittled. I am over it now and am glad that I am taking steps now to make Frogee feel better. Hopefully my efforts work. I will keep you posted.

[mpmistr]

HI Swimmin Steve,
Thanks for your advice. I think I have a whisper filter but I had it on the tank with the sick fish. Would I use bleach on this component too without the media and just get new media? Just want to make sure I dont add more bad bacteria etc to the tank by accident.

How did the fish die? New media would start your aquariums cycling process over again. Did the fish die from some kind of bacterial issue? Filters contain beneficial bacteria that breaks down ammonia into nitrite then nitrate which is beneficial to your aquarium (cycling is basically the nitrogen cycle of NH3 > NO2 > NO3).

I am feeding Zoo Med Aquatic Frog and Tadpole Food (micro pellets). I am just concerned that Frogee can't find it as easily since the tank is bigger and he has to go further to the top. There is a filter hole which I covered (until I get the filter straightened out tomorrow) with paper and tape so I think it will be ok.

The Zoo Med food is perfectly fine. Whatever food is not found can be removed with a turkey baster (one never washed with soap!) or a gravel vac. I would remove food daily if any is left over. Have you considered live food such as nightcrawlers? I feed these often to my frogs, probably more so than pellets and they really enjoy it. You can buy them at a bait store or walmart so long as they are not dyed or scented or have any weird 'enhancements' to attract fish.

I have used tape to cover gaps on my tanks before and it is necessary as these guys can and will leave the tank given half a chance. Do not worry about their ability to swim/surface for air. I kept small froglets (tiny!) in a 20G high tank and they were able to dart upward for air in half a second. They are very capable swimmers don't underestimate them, lol.

I can say that so far so good... Frogee doesnt seem to mind the new tank and once I get him some more plants or little enclosures etc I think he will be even happier. I can always move that stuff to the 10gal. I will continue to monitor the water with the testers until then to make sure it isnt an issue in the meantime.

10 gallon would be ideal.

I put a towel over the tank for now so that he has some shade instead of light and he can hide a bit more since there isnt too much in the tank right now. I did take the advise of others in the forum and I got white sand for the bottom. Will definitely leave the bloodworms out of the diet.
Hopefully he will feel a little better soon. I definitely understand the concern of others. To be honest I think the 3rd response or so upset me the most and I felt attacked and belittled. I am over it now and am glad that I am taking steps now to make Frogee feel better. Hopefully my efforts work. I will keep you posted.

White sand is good, I like the CaribSea Moonlight sand personally it's very fine sand and if they digest any of it, it goes right through them. I did not mean to belittle you but the frog sounded in trouble and I was trying to put some urgency in my tone.

I think you can get this frog on the road to recovery and I hope he gets better soon!

[rob2000]

HI Michael,
Thanks for your response.
The fish was taken out of the primary tank and put into a secondary tank (this 5gal) to rest and sit by himself. To be honest, I am not sure what killed him. I think it was a type of fungus though based on the white tufty material he ended up getting on him. Two fish in that tank were picking on eachother and although I tried to seperate them in the tank, they both ended up dying. The fish was only in that tank for a few days. I think I would have to get at least new filter media but I am not sure how to clean the rest of the filter. I will take a look online. Have you ever had luck with that bacteria set up that they sell to add beneficial bacteria to water?
He still seems to be doing well and doesnt mind the tank. I just have to get a filter up and running and get that tank in good shape.

Its ok, I am very passionate about animals myself which is why I was very upset. I have actually stopped eating beef and pork and hope to cut out some others as well because I care about animals so much. My Aunt was an animal rights person and almost got arrested several times for standing up for dogs in cages at pet stores.
I really do try to keep all animals (water or land) healthy and happy but apparently I am a little better at land animals and need some more guidance on water creatures.. lol.

We will see how I do. Hopefully he will feel better soon.

[Mentat]

...I am going to upgrade his conditions as soon as I understand if my tank is clean enough or if I need to do a better cleaning job first.
I used basic soap, kind of like antibacterial hand soap with very hot water to clean last night. Scrubbed soap all over and rinsed. Repeated one time. Thoughts?

Wow Rob... I'm both surprised and confused about this comment. Did you used soap because someone told you or is that an established practice when you clean your fish and frog tanks? The reason I ask is because soap is a great human skin antibacterial; but a very toxic substance in aquatic environments. Nothing (brushes, pails, etc.) that comes in contact with soap should be shared when cleaning fish/frog tanks and the tank itself should never be washed with soap. If you have used soap in the past, that probably explains your fish deaths and frog ailments .

[rob2000]

No, I havent had to wash any of my tanks (for disinfecting purposes) and actually it is not a regular occasion that I loose fish believe it or not. I have not used any soap in frogees environment in the past so that is definitely not the cause of any of his issues.

[rob2000]

Well I was on a good track and ran to the store to get a new filter. However, when I put the filter on the tank, of course some sand goes into it and clogs it. Looks like I have to get another filter. Any recommends?

[Felis]

Hi,

I realize that this thread is back to the main topic, but I still want to apologize for my second post here. That was unnecessarily aggresive and I´m not proud of it.

What kind of filter did you purchase? Normally, sand doesn´t cause any problems. Is it possible to put the intake of the filter in a higher position, so that it can´t suck in the sand that easily?

[rodsboys]

Well I was on a good track and ran to the store to get a new filter. However, when I put the filter on the tank, of course some sand goes into it and clogs it. Looks like I have to get another filter. Any recommends?

Put a sponge or filter bag over the intake. You can also use a piece of pantyhose to keep from sucking sand up. What filter did you go with?

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Put a sponge or filter bag over the intake. You can also use a piece of pantyhose to keep from sucking sand up. What filter did you go with?

True that will protect the filter but won't solve the issue.
also what ever you put over the intake will get clogged as well in time.

The problem is the intake tube is too long.
I will bet that there are two segments and the intake guard.

I would take out one of the segments to shorten the intake tube.
So the intake is not so close to the sand.

and if there isn't a way to shorten the intake tube you can adjust the flow on the intake to a lower flow
and would set it to the lowest setting so the moving water doesn't stress out the frog.

[rob2000]

HI All
I got the whisper PF 10 for up to 10 gal so I can switch if needed to a 10 gal.
I haven't seen Frogee eat but I did give up on the small pellets and went for repto min because it is easier for him to see at the top. I put a small piece in last night and I dont see it today so I am hoping that he ate it. He is out and about today but still looks fat. The pet shop (on my second visit) recommended I put the Fluval Edge foam piece over the filter tip. Unfortunately it is at its shortest seting which means I have to cut the intake. I will try it at the longest level with the foam and see if it works without too much trouble, then I will try to cut if that doesnt work. I will try a few things. Tank is at 74degrees right now.
Found some live plants but wanted to do some research first. Some found are argentine sword, aqua fern, amazon sword, kyoto and compacta.. any thoughts on these?
Don't worry Felis, we are all ok now. I think a good lesson was learned for all of us so I am happy that it happend.

[rodsboys]

True that will protect the filter but won't solve the issue.
also what ever you put over the intake will get clogged as well in time.

The problem is the intake tube is too long.
I will bet that there are two segments and the intake guard.

I would take out one of the segments to shorten the intake tube.
So the intake is not so close to the sand.

and if there isn't a way to shorten the intake tube you can adjust the flow on the intake to a lower flow
and would set it to the lowest setting so the moving water doesn't stress out the frog.

How do you know what filter he has? Not all small tank filters have " tubes", so don' t try to quote and correct me because you don't like that I called you out earlier, and don't send me anymore of you PM's trying to convince me that you are a genius. I don't care what worked for you, and that you have had a couple of freshwater tanks over the last 20 years.
Our advice here needs to be kept to a set of standards that are fool proof, not people's proud opinions based on their so called "success".