Ugh... Medicine not working...

[HerpDerp]

I posted a while ago about Glurmo being sick. He's been on metronidazole for 20 days now (two drops on his back daily). I've force fed him a few times, tried to get him to eat on his own daily and I've done soaks. He definitely has symptoms of a protozoa infection. He's lethargic, not eating, shedding daily, spending a lot of time in the water. Since he hasn't really been eating the only poop I've seen from him is basically just mucous. I really thought that the medicine would help him, but if anything he's gotten worse since he's been on it . I just don't know what to do at this point. I don't know why the medicine isn't working and it's killing me to see him suffer. I've considered having him euthanized to end it for him, but I just can't help but think there's something else I can do. I just don't know what. I'm looking for any suggestions at this point ...

[aegillesp]

I'm really sorry about your little guy. I noticed the same symptoms in my lil' girl and I took her poop to the vet to have it looked at, and it was FULL of worms. She's been lethargic, hardly eating, can barely climb. He did give her a medication called fenbendazole .02ml that I have to give her orally for 3 days. It's been a challenge to get her mouth open, but thankfully she only has one dosage left. I would try to maybe get some of the fenbendazole? Definately get a poop sample to the vet. I'm just a beginner with frogs, but maybe my experience will help you?

[HerpDerp]

I can't get his poop tested because he's not pooping . The couple times he "pooped" out mucus it was just liquid pretty much. But if it was worms wouldn't my other frog be sick as well? He's been perfectly fine through all of this. Actually, he's grown a bit since he's been getting Glurmo's uneaten crickets LOL. Has your frog shown any improvement with the medication?

[HerpDerp]

And what was the dosage your vet recommended and how is it prepared? I can get it online for like $5 so I might give it a shot. I'm assuming if it works I would probably have to treat my other frog too?

[Heatheranne]

Michelle, your vet can prescribe Panacur (fenbendazole) even without a fecal test. It is a safe treatment so long as it is prescribed by weight or the size of your frog. Give your vet or Dr.Frye a call. You may be able to still save your frog.

[aegillesp]

Honestly, I have not yet seen an improvement, but then again, I think I've traumatized her by forcing her mouth to open, didn't take me as long today, but yesterday was horrible. I'm supposed to take her poo to the vet on monday or tuesday, so we'll see if it's really working. I've had her for almost 3 months, the first month she was perfect, eating 7 crickets a day, then suddenly went to 2-3 every few days then 1 every few days. Her condition changed quickly for me. I've thought about asking if I can get a small amount to keep on hand. I do want to get more AGTFs.

[aegillesp]

Oh, the dosage he gave me was .02ml for 16g(?) she is about 1-1/2 to 2" long. It was given to me in syringes (w/out needles) and I just had to give it to her orally every day.

[flybyferns]

Oh, the dosage he gave me was .02ml for 16g(?) she is about 1-1/2 to 2" long. It was given to me in syringes (w/out needles) and I just had to give it to her orally every day.

Hi,
Couple things:
I agree with Heather. I would scoop up poop from both frogs and have it tested.
If one or both are infested- they should both be treated.
The should be in separate enclosures. Quarantine is probably the very most important thing you could be doing for your frogs.

The Metro works by stopping the growth of some bacteria , protozoa and fungal infection.
20 days is a longtime-- neurological and kidney side effects can be a result of its use this long.
The runny stool could be result of not continued infection but a result of the food the frogs is getting or a side effect of the metro?

You really need to talk to the vet.
Most vets will not make you bring the frog(s) back it.

Remember Michelle, we have a much greater daily exposure to our frogs. You can help the vet by discussing what you have observed.
Don't underestimate the importance of that! If the vet is not 'listenting' to you...find a new one! You have worked very hard!

[Mentat]

...He's been on metronidazole for 20 days now (two drops on his back daily). I've force fed him a few times, tried to get him to eat on his own daily and I've done soaks. He definitely has symptoms of a protozoa infection. He's lethargic, not eating, shedding daily, spending a lot of time in the water. Since he hasn't really been eating the only poop I've seen from him is basically just mucous. I really thought that the medicine would help him, but if anything he's gotten worse since he's been on it . I just don't know what to do at this point. I don't know why the medicine isn't working and it's killing me to see him suffer. I've considered having him euthanized to end it for him, but I just can't help but think there's something else I can do. I just don't know what. I'm looking for any suggestions at this point ...

Hello Michelle! I'm confused about your frog treatment and the veterinary prescription. As stated Metro is an anti-protozoan and anti-bacterial. Metro is not safe for continued use and repeated treatments can damage an organism kidneys if used so. I'm not a veterinary, but the use you are stating (over 20 days) does not match any prescription I know of. Why are you force feeding frog? Did vet directed that? Force feeding is very stressful and usually a last resort type of thing.

I can't get his poop tested because he's not pooping . The couple times he "pooped" out mucus it was just liquid pretty much. But if it was worms wouldn't my other frog be sick as well? He's been perfectly fine through all of this. Actually, he's grown a bit since he's been getting Glurmo's uneaten crickets LOL. Has your frog shown any improvement with the medication?

Those frogs should be in quarantine on hospital tank set-up. If together and one frog has protozoa, probably both do. Should take poop sample of "healthy" frog to vet for fecal analysis now.

Hi,
Couple things:
I agree with Heather. I would scoop up poop from both frogs and have it tested.
If one or both are infested- they should both be treated.
The should be in separate enclosures. Quarantine is probably the very most important thing you could be doing for your frogs.

The Metro works by stopping the growth of some bacteria , protozoa and fungal infection.
20 days is a longtime-- neurological and kidney side effects can be a result of its use this long.
The runny stool could be result of not continued infection but a result of the food the frogs is getting or a side effect of the metro?

You really need to talk to the vet.
Most vets will not make you bring the frog(s) back it.

Remember Michelle, we have a much greater daily exposure to our frogs. You can help the vet by discussing what you have observed.
Don't underestimate the importance of that! If the vet is not 'listenting' to you...find a new one! You have worked very hard!

Agree with Lynn comments! Good luck

[Lija]

haven't seen your previous thread....
Michelle - i have a question - does your vet treating amphibians in general?
the next Q - how protozoa was diagnosed and did your vet see pathogenic one specifically? there are lots of protozoa species that live in a frog digestive system and does nothing bad, so if that is the case then your meds won't work. another q -did Carlos got it right and you didn't quarantine him? did you treat your other frog that lives in the enclosure? if that is pathogenic protozoa or any types of parasites you HAVE to treat every single frog in the enclosure despite you see it sick or not, otherwise it is pointless and treated frog will be reinfected over and over again.
as Lynn suggested you should really give Dr. Frye a call ASAP!

[HerpDerp]

Thank you guys for all the replies! Dr. Frye is the one that prescribed the metro. He didn't say I should treat the other frog or quarantine my sick frog. I really considered it, but didn't want to further stress him. I'm going to get out the quarantine tank tomorrow and put him in there. Since Lrrr is showing no outward signs of sickness how should I treat him? I don't really want to give him a 20 day course of metro if it's not needed since, as others said, it can have some serious side effects. I thought 20 days seemed like a long time, but that's what Dr. Frye's subscription said. But the good news is that Glurmo ate a small cricket on his own tonight. That's the second time he's done it since he's been sick (for about a month) and I've force fed him three times (all last week) since he hadn't been eating. He refused the second cricket I gave him though. Hopefully in quarantine he'll start to improve some more? Also, should I get the panacur still? I have a scale that I can get accurate weights on so I can give the proper dosage. I don't have an amphibian vet around me so my options are limited to Dr. Frye, and self treatment. Sorry if I'm rambling a bit. This has gotten very stressful over the last month and I'm just very discouraged. I'm glad I have this forum to help me out though

[Lija]

Michelle, don't get discouraged, we'll try to help you. if he is still on meds, don't give him more.
would you please answer my questions as to how it was diagnosed? and why?
why do you want to treat with panacur now?
i suggest you stop doing whatever your doing, place both frogs in a separate quarantine tanks for now.
please describe what was happening that made you treat him from protozoa infection and what exactly is happening now.

[HerpDerp]

I just tried to post a reply but it didn't show up... weird? Lol anyways...

I had emailed Dr. Frye and gave a detailed description of his symptoms. He was lethargic, not eating and was shedding daily. He just wasn't looking good at all. Dr. Frye had also suggested the panacur if the metro didn't clear up the problem. That's why I was considering getting some panacur as well. I see on the forum that some people use it as a preventative anyways? I was considering doing that as a precautionary measure.

Glurmo has always been very lethargic and not at all active like Lrrr is. He had been at petco for a long time and the frog that was in with him at the store had already died when I basically rescued him. I've had a suspicion for a while that there is something genetic or congenital wrong with him. When I get home tonight I'm going to quarantine him. He did eat a small cricket last night so should I just wait it for for a few days to see if there's improvement? And should I treat Lrrr at all as a precaution?

[Lija]

no, don't treat them, not until parasites or protozoa is diagnosed. After 20 days of metro his body is shutting down, what he needs now is recovery treatment, reptiboost, pedyalite (6:10 with water) and a few drops of honey in there. do that daily, offer food and see how it goes. that is assuming the conditions are great that I'm sure they are having you as a owner!
any other medicine right now will make his body shut down even more., so don't do anything and if he poops you can send it for fecal or you can do fecal for Lrrr for now. how Lrrr is doing and does his poop look normal?
panacur is relatively safe to use, but anything needs to be used with caution when we talk sick frog, stress of ff is not helping as well.

keep him in hospital set up with all 4 sides covered with wet papertowels. try to make sure he lives as stress free as possible. Use UVB as a day lamp if you don't do it already.

lethargic, shedding, not eating are not typical symptoms of protozoa, those are general symptoms that show that something is not right. The only diagnostic tool for protozoa is to do fecal exam and be sure you see pathogenic ones, majority of protozoa found in fecal exam are commensial, just like bacteria on our digestive system.

[flybyferns]

Hi Michelle,
Just to reiterate what I posted 2 days ago

"I would scoop up poop from both frogs and have it tested.
If one or both are infested- they should both be treated."
They should be in separate enclosures.
Quarantine is probably the very most important thing you could be doing for your frogs. "

I feel bad for you - But you need to send the fecals to Dr Frye.
If its a parasite ....it has to identified properly. Panacur will get most of the, but not all.
If these were my frogs I wold do the fecal 1st - not just treat!
If panacur is not the right treatment- it could make things worse!

His poor digestive tract needs to rest ! Poor baby...sorry

Lynn

[HerpDerp]

I am in the process of trying to find a vet near by to at least do a fecal for me on him. At least that way I can get results sooner. It's only going to be Lrrr's feces that will be tested. But since glurmo just ate maybe he'll actually poop. Fingers crossed! I really do appreciate all the helpful advice I've been given.

[flybyferns]

Michelle,
I'm so glad to hear he ate. It's a great sign!
Yes , lets hope you will have a sample soon !
Please keep us posted
Lynn