Flies for FBTs - Any Probs??

[Paul Rust]

If you don't create manuals, databases, guides etc. you have nothing but a bunch of people re-inventing the wheel and making the same mistakes all over again. Stating that it is wrong or tainted because it is in a "book" is crazy. I am talking about striving to use best practices. Anyone can say they are an expert in frogs after keeping a frog they caught that hasn't died yet. I've seen tree frogs kept in water with a little plastic palm tree in the middle of a 5 gallon tank. If I had told them that was not a correct way to keep tree frogs then using your logic they could counter me by saying "it isn't dead is it", well they are correct but is it the best thing to do? As far as a TWI ego club goes, the people I have been involved with are helpful, respectful, humble, and in it for the welfare of the animals. I only quote the "book" to demonstrate that this ground has been covered. I don't understand why you would dig in and defend using potentially dangerous methods when there is no need for it. Are you really suggesting that this blog holds more merit than ASN's manuals? The Association of Zoos and Aquariums say that they cautiously use wild insects. Thes are experts. I really doubt that they swing a net around and dump it into the cages randomly. Attempting to discredit my statements by attacking TWI is completely unwarranted. Perhaps if you did join you could use your expertise to help change these things that you don't agree with. I am not going to get in a mudslinging contest with you. I believe we are both in it for the same reasons and wouldn't want to tell someone to do something that would harm their animals. There is nothing wrong with us disagreeing and I respect your opinion, no need to get nasty and attempt to discredit each other, I simply have no interest in that sort of activity. Especially over a subject as rediculous as this. Bottom line, I am here to help people, nothing more.

[SethD]

If you don't create manuals, databases, guides etc. you have nothing but a bunch of people re-inventing the wheel and making the same mistakes all over again. Stating that it is wrong or tainted because it is in a "book" is crazy. I am talking about striving to use best practices. Anyone can say they are an expert in frogs after keeping a frog they caught that hasn't died yet. I've seen tree frogs kept in water with a little plastic palm tree in the middle of a 5 gallon tank. If I had told them that was not a correct way to keep tree frogs then using your logic they could counter me by saying "it isn't dead is it", well they are correct but is it the best thing to do?

I never said that having a "book" was wrong or even a bad idea, books and guidelines can be very useful and allow us to learn from others. The problem comes when so much emphasis is placed on what is written that what is observed tends to be ignored.

As far as a TWI ego club goes, the people I have been involved with are helpful, respectful, humble, and in it for the welfare of the animals. I only quote the "book" to demonstrate that this ground has been covered. I don't understand why you would dig in and defend using potentially dangerous methods when there is no need for it. Are you really suggesting that this blog holds more merit than ASN's manuals? The Association of Zoos and Aquariums say that they cautiously use wild insects. Thes are experts. I really doubt that they swing a net around and dump it into the cages randomly. Attempting to discredit my statements by attacking TWI is completely unwarranted.

First, I never said that there weren't good people in TWI, as a matter of fact if you read what I said I said I respected many of the people in it and I do. To state that I was "attempting to discredit your statements by attacking TWI" is just silly. I am not attacking TWI. I am merely still on the fence because while I do see potential for good I also see the potential for some things I don't much like. Secondly, I certainly have no interest in "discrediting" your statements unless they are in error and there isn't the slightest bit of person intent in my posts. Take a deep breath and settle down. Thirdly, yes I do place more value on mr. Indiviglio's experience's than on ASN's "manuals" on this subject as his experiences mirror my own and many others. He has been around the block a time or two as well. The ASN's manuals are just some ideas a few knowledgeable people agreed to put down as general guidelines. They are generally sound because the people who wrote them are knowledgeable but they are not perfect or set in stone.

I am not going to get in a mudslinging contest with you. I believe we are both in it for the same reasons and wouldn't want to tell someone to do something that would harm their animals. There is nothing wrong with us disagreeing and I respect your opinion, no need to get nasty and attempt to discredit each other, I simply have no interest in that sort of activity. Especially over a subject as rediculous as this. Bottom line, I am here to help people, nothing more.

Relax. lol I am not and have not been nasty, I have not been "attempting to discredit you" nor have I been slinging mud, In essence I simply stated that you were wrong, misinformed and overreacting to say: "DO NOT FEED WC INSECTS". Everyone is wrong sometimes and this is one case where you are. If you would try it you would find that out.

[Kurt]

As the number two guy here, I am going to remain neutral in this argument and may have to play referee at some point. I have much respect for both parties in this argument and I believe both sides do have valid points. Seth states there is no sufficient evidence that feeding wild caught insects is potentially dangers and there are advantages to do so, while NWAR (What is your first name? I find it weird calling people by their screen names) states that there is a strong risk involved in feeding field plankton from parasites and toxins.

My feelings are why bother taking the chance? I stick with cultured insects and commercially produced insects, avoiding wild caught insect all together. I don't think is being paranoid, just cautious.

[firefly]

I just wish I'd never asked

[Paul Rust]

Not your fault. We should have taken it offline. Keep asking questions. These little battles are how we all learn about all viewpoints, both sides always have valid reasons that should be looked into. Even though I am right! Just kidding Seth!!!!!

[Han]

Hi!

Earthworms? Hard to find better food for Bombina!
The cultured ones seem to taste disgusting, although i never
tried, so you should use wc. Feeding wc earthworms (and slugs, moths, spiders, grasshoppers etc. ) for over 30 years, i never lost a single soul.
Bombina has excellent eye-sight, there's no need to put the worms into
their mouth, even better to keep some distance.
Be patient! Once they've tried worms for food, they"ll kill for it.
Good luck.

Han.

[firefly]

Hi!

Earthworms? Hard to find better food for Bombina!
The cultured ones seem to taste disgusting, although i never
tried, so you should use wc. Feeding wc earthworms (and slugs, moths, spiders, grasshoppers etc. ) for over 30 years, i never lost a single soul.
Bombina has excellent eye-sight, there's no need to put the worms into
their mouth, even better to keep some distance.
Be patient! Once they've tried worms for food, they"ll kill for it.
Good luck.

Han.

Thx Han, I'll try eathworms & moths. My gardens safe from pesticides - no-one really bothers about their gardens here, pretty overgrown..

You don't bother to chop them up then either?? They're not chopped in the wild tho are they, so they must manage.

I'm going digging in my compost heap.

[firefly]

Not your fault. We should have taken it offline. Keep asking questions. These little battles are how we all learn about all viewpoints, both sides always have valid reasons that should be looked into. Even though I am right! Just kidding Seth!!!!!

LITTLE battles!!! I wouldn't like to be around when there's a big one !!