Cody ate plastic decor

[DVirginiana]

Sorry to hear that Poor little guy. At least he had someone willing to really try for him.

Clove oil kills frogs D.

I know, the only reason I threw that out there was because I've seen it used to anesthetize fish for home-surgeries, even though it's typically used to euthanize fish as well. Does it effect frogs differently than fish for these purposes? Just wondering.. It'd be good to know.

[Ra]

So you took the advice of a few people on a forum of frog keepers inexperienced with veterinary care and decided to perform amateur surgery when you should have called a vet...

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm very sorry Stanton. RIP Cody.

I wish there was more we could have done. This is probably for the best. If the plant could not be extracted he would have surely died with much suffering. I very sorry

[IvoryReptiles]

So you took the advice of a few people on a forum of frog keepers inexperienced with veterinary care and decided to perform amateur surgery when you should have called a vet...

You know, it was a sad thing and to be real honest, most vets wouldn't have done much of anything.......even the supposed specialists in reptiles/amphibians.
I have noticed that you never have much advice to give unless it is in the form of criticism after the fact Ra. MeTree explained why a vet was not an option. MeTree reached out to us because it was the only option for them. Some of us can go to a vet with issues like this.....some of us even have vets available that would give it a shot. MeTree was asking for help where they thought they could get some advice from folks who may have had a similar experience........that is what the forum is for Ra.

[Ra]

I realize that, but it would have been wise to seek out other, more reliable information elsewhere. Nonetheless, I dont know what kind of procedure Metree attempted to perform, probably some type of endoscopy through the mouth. Im somewhat curious to know how the procedure was performed, when Metree is ready to discuss it.
I didnt say anything about going to a vet, I said to call one. I would highly recommend anyone call a vet before seeking out information on an internet forum. Internet forums are notorious for having alot of unreliable information. Vets will often give general advice over the phone and tell you what you can do and what your options are. I would even go ahead and call another vet, just for a second opinion, before I sought advice from any other place, especially an internet forum.

I think the best advice any frog or animal keeper can get in an emergency medical situation is to call a vet. I realize that he had no way of getting to a veterinarian, but a phone call wouldn't have hurt.

Stating that a vet "wouldnt do much of anything" even a reptile and amphibian specialist seems a little bit outrageous of a statement to make, and a very subjective one. I would hate to think new frog keepers will leave this forum thinking that seeking vet care is pointless or stupid.

[Ra]

Unfortunately any advice I could possibly give in this situation IS after the fact. I wouldnt know what to do if my frog ate plastic decor. But I can say without a doubt that my frog would never eat plastic decor. Prevention is the best medicine after all.

SO for all the frog keepers out there who have something valuable to learn from this whole scenario, heres my advice.

Feed your frog with forceps and on a smooth bare surface, such as an empty plastic container or terrarium. That will ensure beyond a doubt that they never consume any inedibles.

[GrifTheGreat]

Ra have you ever taken a frog to a herp vet? Most guess more than stating what is actually wrong with the animal. Also most would rather just put an animal down without a second thought of how to save the animal. It just depends on where you go and whether the Vet will actually attempt to save the frog. After all they do a procedure and it kills the frog then it kind of falls back on them. That's why most won't even attempt to save them. So I believe Jess' statement above is quite true. I have a Herp Vet that I can take mine to if needs be, but a lot of Herp Vets are also still learning so they'll research how to help the animal while they're seeing it in office. Mine even does this, but I've only needed to take one of mine in and just get meds for another. I believe MeTres did the best he could in this situation and there us no need for any further advice here.

What's done is done and it should be left at that.

[Lija]

so sorry for your loss MeTres, RIP Cody.

as for other things - I can tell that people on this forum helped me way more then any vet by far! there is nothing like hands on experience and advice from breeders and keepers who know what they are talking about. there are just a few vets who are specializing in herps, and out of them only small percentage know anything about frogs. I know that for a fact but that is in US, same in Canada, I don't think there are any board certified herp vets, so the best case scenario you will be dealing with general practice vets who may have been to a few exotic animal conferences and read a few book about exotics, but with animal this small and having such a small possibilities to do anything surgically I doubt vet would help anyway here.
advice on feeding outside the cage - well this may work for some, but in some instances - they will better starve then go there, why to get them more stresses then they need to be, in my particular case - if I feed mine in separate container he would be starve to death, only 1 out of 4 frogs is ok with tong feeding and that is under condition he is in his cage.

so my advice is - love your frogs, do your research - find ALL that you can on your particular frog, ask for advice no matter how stupid the question may sound, listen to what people have to say and do your very best for your little "baby" - provide the best conditions he can possibly have, and be prepare to pay as much as you need for all that stuff, including visit to a vet when you know it'll help.

[IvoryReptiles]

I realize that, but it would have been wise to seek out other, more reliable information elsewhere. Nonetheless, I dont know what kind of procedure Metree attempted to perform, probably some type of endoscopy through the mouth. Im somewhat curious to know how the procedure was performed, when Metree is ready to discuss it.
I didnt say anything about going to a vet, I said to call one. I would highly recommend anyone call a vet before seeking out information on an internet forum. Internet forums are notorious for having alot of unreliable information. Vets will often give general advice over the phone and tell you what you can do and what your options are. I would even go ahead and call another vet, just for a second opinion, before I sought advice from any other place, especially an internet forum.

I think the best advice any frog or animal keeper can get in an emergency medical situation is to call a vet. I realize that he had no way of getting to a veterinarian, but a phone call wouldn't have hurt.

Stating that a vet "wouldnt do much of anything" even a reptile and amphibian specialist seems a little bit outrageous of a statement to make, and a very subjective one. I would hate to think new frog keepers will leave this forum thinking that seeking vet care is pointless or stupid.

I simply pointed out the cold hard facts Ra........also, pretty sure that my advice is not what would run folks off from this forum.......but your rude and condescending remarks might.
And just for the record, I have an excellent vet that does specialize in exotics/reptiles & amphibians........I did ask his advice about this after filling him in on the situation. He said that if they couldn't get the frog to a vet, the course of action MeTree took was what he would have considered as the best action other than out-right putting the frog down. I agree with him that at least attempting to save the animal is better than letting it sit and suffer a slow death by starvation or damage caused by a foreign object.
You seem to think that you are the only educated person on this forum. You are not. You might want to try helping these folks with advice instead of trolling around just waiting for a tragedy to occur where you can then scold the people involved for not doing what YOU would have done blah, blah, blah. I have yet to see you even attempt to help with advice, but you sure try to act as though you know all. You don't. Get off your High Horse already.

[Ra]

I simply pointed out the cold hard facts Ra........also, pretty sure that my advice is not what would run folks off from this forum.......but your rude and condescending remarks might.
And just for the record, I have an excellent vet that does specialize in exotics/reptiles & amphibians........I did ask his advice about this after filling him in on the situation. He said that if they couldn't get the frog to a vet, the course of action MeTree took was what he would have considered as the best action other than out-right putting the frog down. I agree with him that at least attempting to save the animal is better than letting it sit and suffer a slow death by starvation or damage caused by a foreign object.
You seem to think that you are the only educated person on this forum. You are not. You might want to try helping these folks with advice instead of trolling around just waiting for a tragedy to occur where you can then scold the people involved for not doing what YOU would have done blah, blah, blah. I have yet to see you even attempt to help with advice, but you sure try to act as though you know all. You don't. Get off your High Horse already.

I see your point, but I just dont want to see people visiting the forum and getting the idea that taking the animal to the vet, or even calling one is an outright waste of time.

Some interesting input has come out of the scenario for everybody to learn from; submerging a frog in water can cause it to release items grasped in the mouth, feeding your frogs inside the enclosure can be risky and feeding on a flat smooth surface is probably better, and calling a vet in an animal emergency medical situation should be the first action taken.

Its my opinion that he should have called a vet, if that puts me on a high horse than thats fine. I think most pet owners would agree with that. Even if the vet couldnt help at all, at least he sought proffessional advice first. My criticism really doesn't stretch any further than the fact that he didnt call a vet regarding the course of action taken in light of the problem.

I'd be interested to know what kind of procedure he performed. I'm sure very few frog keepers have ever been in a situation where they have had to perform an emergency edoscopic removal of a foreign object.

[DVirginiana]

A lot of vets won't give advice over the phone without an office visit. If they give advice without having seen the animal, then it looks really bad if they misdiagnose or recommend the wrong thing. If you DO have a herp vet you can get to, just an office visit can cost an arm and a leg. As much as we all love our frogs, sometimes that's just not financially an option.

Like Grif said, a lot of times they will research the animal once it's brought in (Not knocking vets though; my local vet recently helped me treat a rescue-reptile. Didn't even charge me for the office visit, only meds, since he told me outright he didn't know much about exotics).

[RobbyBobby]

Unfortunate event.
For anyone else who ever runs into this problem in the future, horned frogs will generally release anything in their grasp if they are submerged under water.

[GrifTheGreat]

Sorry to hear that Poor little guy. At least he had someone willing to really try for him.



I know, the only reason I threw that out there was because I've seen it used to anesthetize fish for home-surgeries, even though it's typically used to euthanize fish as well. Does it effect frogs differently than fish for these purposes? Just wondering.. It'd be good to know.

They use it to euthanize frogs not to perform surgery. A small amount will kill them. Their chemistry is different than fish.

[Ra]

They use it to euthanize frogs not to perform surgery. A small amount will kill them. Their chemistry is different than fish.

Its already been stated that its used as an anesthetic before the frogs are euthanized, but the side effect may be gastric prolapse therefore it wouldnt be the best option
The best option, as mentioned, would be MS-222, and if the frog falls too deeply into sleep during the procedure it can be partially revived by being rinsed in well oxygenated water.