just water as substrate

[mason12]

Here is some pics of the 2 of them


the big one is King Louis, he is Ornate, 6". the lil guy is Bubba 3"

[GrifTheGreat]

Here is some pics of the 2 of them


the big one is King Louis, he is Ornate, 6". the lil guy is Bubba 3"

I have 6 Pacman Frogs. Water is not their natural choice of living conditions. They are ambush predators that burrow into the soil and leaf litter and await prey to pass by as well as hiding from potential predators. Anyone who has kept frogs knows how bad stress affects them. They can be fine one day and dead the next just like that.

If you've ever seen a Pacman that has been kept on water with nothing to grip for its entire life you can see the frogs legs will be positioned outward instead of tucked beneath like they should be. They start to have trouble eventually and the muscles will weaken. Since yours probably haven't been kept that way their entire life then during crucial development stages in their lives have already passed so they didn't develops the position of their legs incorrectly. If you keep them on just water they need a textured bottom or something to grip that can't be accidentally ingested.

The information I posted came from researching although I do not remember the specific reference to provide for you. You can plainly see the difference in the position of their hind legs between those kept on substrate or have a textured bottom beneath the water to grip than those who do not. Waters buoyancy also affects leg strength since it makes you feel as if you weigh less and Pac don't really swim around so not much exercise going on like doing laps in their tank

[mason12]

maybe i think im gonna put a tub of eco earth in there

[mason12]

so is living in water detrimental to their health?

[GrifTheGreat]

so is living in water detrimental to their health?

If the frog is stressed, they develops leg strength issues, or you do not keep up with water changes and filtration as well as water temp being too low then yes. A lot of breeders keep their frogs on just shallow water or very moist paper towels because it is easily cleaned as they are strapped for time, but they change water and clean everyday with well over 150 frogs not to mention froglets and tadpoles.

Stress and going out syndrome would be the main problems to look for at this point. If the water has a buildup of ammonia it will cause the frog to his out which is a disease they get from stagnant fowl water of untreated water that has chemicals still in it. They will stop eating, become bloated, and be very lethargic. Talk to a couple breeders on here like JIvoryII(Jim) and IvoryReptiles( Jess) They are husband and wife who own a breeding business called Ivory Reptiles of course . Also talk to Mike of Mike's Phat Frogs. They can help you with keeping your frogs in water.

[GrifTheGreat]

maybe i think im gonna put a tub of eco earth in there

This can work. You'll have very dirty water though everything they desire they need a bath

[arielgasca420]

Here is some pics of the 2 of them


the big one is King Louis, he is Ornate, 6". the lil guy is Bubba 3"

I love the colors on yours. mine is ornate and he is more of a chocolate color...
I would suggest providing him with a small amount of eco earth in a small dish just to see which lifestyle he prefers. my pacman personally loves to burrow, like most. Sometimes the only thing you can see are two evil eyes staring at you in the dirt. I love it!
try the eco earth and see what happens.
the best is half water half land.

[mason12]

Thanks! yeah i might put in a tub of eco earth

[JIvoryII]

I would say... put the eco in the tank and a tub of water into the eco... easier to change a tub of water daily the the other way around also its easier for the frogs to get in and out of the tub of water as the tub gives a little more grip then the glass..

on a side note I see both frogs in that tank ( at least it looks that way ) not a good idea.. I keep one frog per container except for breeding and ive had accidents with just those times together.

[mason12]

Im still deciding what to do i had the eco earth before but it stunck sooo bad and was harder to clean. And I know that the big guy could eat the little one but they've been getting along fine and i feed them every 2 days so they are always full

[GrifTheGreat]

Im still deciding what to do i had the eco earth before but it stunck sooo bad and was harder to clean. And I know that the big guy could eat the little one but they've been getting along fine and i feed them every 2 days so they are always full

Good Eco Earth Coco fiber smells like fresh dirt. I don't understand why people keep placing 2 cannibalistic frog together living in the same tank and actually believe that nothing bad will happen. If I were you I'd listen to Jim and delegate them immediately. No good can come from them being housed together.

[Ra]

I have used just water for Pacs before but not as a permanent arrangement. I kept babies and juveniles this way because it was the easiest method, but that was also ten years ago and these days I know better. Pacman frogs dont live in shallow water, they like to burrow. Modelling the terrarium enviroment to reflect their natural lifestyle and encourage natural behavior is best. Today I would at least use moistened paper towel, they can kick it around, dig in it, keep moist and feel hidden all in a little bit of paper towel.
Water also dirties up real fast. I know of an African bullfrog that was kept in shallow water, and the owner neglected to change the water for a week and the frog died from the toxicity.
Despite concerns with swallowing moss, I keep all of my Pacman Frogs and Fantasy Frog on moss. It retains moisture just fine and since I feed my Frogs by hand on a smooth plastic surface outside of the enclosure, never had a problem. Unless they decide to start eating the moss when Im not around (something I wouldnt put past a Pyxie or Budgetts Frog) Im not concerned about impaction risks. But again this is only because I feed them outside of the enclosure.
I dislike the coco fiber as a substrate because it leaves the frogs looking so dirty all of the time. If I were going to use a soil substrate I would probably use an organic topsoil mixed with a bit of sand. Of course, if I were feeding them in the cage, I wouldnt use the sand. Is there an impaction risk with natural soil?

[Ra]

I don't understand why people keep placing 2 cannibalistic frog together living in the same tank and actually believe that nothing bad will happen. If I were you I'd listen to Jim and delegate them immediately. No good can come from them being housed together.

Ive read (in a book by the Bartlett's) that two to three similarly sized ADULT Frogs can be kept in a large (30-40 gallon aquarium size) enclosure, so long as they were all similarly sized and werent competeting for space. I kept two specimens in a display tank that were the same size before, in the past. Its not something I would risk today. But keeping a 6" frog with a 3" frog is just stupid, especially since they can eat food items about 50% of their own size. Im sure its just a matter of time before that little guy gets gulped. I also think those front faced exo terra terrariums like the one in the picture, which are taller than they are wide, are less than useful for a Pacman Frog, those terrariums are designed for arboreal creatures. Its really a waste of space and of a kind of nice terrarium that would be better suited to some little tree frogs, and the space that the Pacman frogs do have to occupy is extremely small.