STILL not eating!

[HerpDerp]

So I have followed advice and he is STILL not eating . I tried force feeding him but he just wouldn't open his mouth. I watched some videos online on how to do it. Maybe I just was being too gentle but I didn't want to hurt him or stress him too much. I'm just so frustrated and worried. Last night he acted super interested in food but missed a couple times and gave up and wouldn't touch the crickets. And he wont take food from tongs anymore at all. I just don't know what could possibly be stressing my poor frog so much. I'm at a total loss. Maybe these pictures will provide some more insight and to show you guys just how skinny he is .

[GrifTheGreat]

Is that the gauge you use all the time and if so do you always place it in the substrate? You need a Thermometer and hygrometer that is mounted on the back wall dead center of the back wall 1 1/2" above the substrate so you achieve a more accurate reading. You have to maintain ambient air temps and humidity as well as soil moisture. The gauge you have will not give a accurate reading if placed within the soil. This may be your problem. You do not have the correct climate because you're not reading the enclosures conditions correctly. This will cause stress and the frog will stop eating.

If he is trying though that is a good sign. Break the back legs off the crickets so they're easier to catch. He will be less likely to miss if they can't jump away.

When force feeding you do need to be gentle but apply pressure firmly. They have strong jaws and thus can resist rarely well. You can use a little shopper card since they're small it may be easier for you to use to open the frogs mouth. Place the corner of the card between the upper and lower jaws on the side of the mouth dead center between the hinge of the jaw and snout. I have found this to be the easiest place to open their mouths. Just apply pressure gently yet firmly enough to open the mouth and immediately place the food item in. It doesn't have to be placed all the way in. If the frog bites down on the food item then it should do the rest.

Note that there is no way to avoid stress when force feeding. If someone was forcing your mouth open you would be stressed as well. Just be careful.

[HerpDerp]

I am SO relieved! I ended up not having to force feed him. I had moved the enclosure last Friday out of the living room and into a quieter area. This seemed to help some of his stress but he still wasn't eating. So after attempting to get him to eat a Dubia (which he may have eaten overnight, or it may have burrowed, not sure) I gave up for the night and decided to re-***** the next day. I woke up to a poop in the tank so he must have eaten something! I do have a few worms wiggling around the substrate because he didn't eat them and I left crickets in there on more than one occasion hoping that he would eat when I wasn't looking. But I have a textured background that they can easily climb and possibly escape so I never really knew. But after seeing that poop I decided to buy some wax worms to entice him. I also bought a clear food storage container that I could put on top of him and his potential food like a dome so it would be easier to catch and so that he wouldn't get stressed from moving. When I got home I decided to try just the wax worms to start and wouldn't you know he lunged right for it! He had trouble catching the first one but once he got that in him he ate two more! I'm so excited that I got him to eat. And I made sure to dust them too so he can get some vitamins he's probably been lacking!

So here is my question: I know wax worms are very high in fat and are NOT a good stable BUT he's so very underweight. Is it nutritionally safe to feed them as a staple until he is a healthy weight again? And if so, how many per day should he eat? He's about an inch and a half long and I've had him almost three months but I'm not sure how old he was when I got him but he was very small (size of a nickel?).

And about the thermometers. It's actually not "in" the substrate. It has a weighted bottom that I put in the substrate. And I have two, one on each end so I can measure the temps on the cool end and the warm end. Is this still okay? I can stick in the middle of the back if need be. And Any other suggestions about feeding and keeping his appetite up would be great. I'm hoping I can get him used to tong feeding again so I know exactly how much he's getting.

[BigBlue83]

I am glad you are feeling better, and you realized he was eating. (and its great to get them to star eating with you around, i remember the feeling) ive had my pacman for six months and in the begining he was stressed from the move and wouldnt eat. no he eats like a champ!

[DVirginiana]

I have the same problem with dubias burrowing... They go under the substrate in like thirty seconds, but about 70% of the time my frog won't eat while I'm watching so I have to leave food in there.

There are other people that can give better advice, but I'd personally feed him whatever he'll eat until he reaches a healthy weight, and maybe offer other food with the wax worms. Watch out for impaction though! Waxworms can be really bad for that. The high fat content should only cause problems if you do it long term.

[GrifTheGreat]

Should be fine, but keep offering other foods as well so you can use the Waxworms as a treat soon rather than him only eat them. Chunks of earthworm about as fat and long as a Waxworm may trick him into eating earthworms.

[HerpDerp]

Thanks for the great advice. I think I'll try night crawlers cut up once I get him used to tongs again. I just got more crickets too so I'll keep offering them too. These seem to be the only two food items he is at all interested in!

[Ra]

So I have followed advice and he is STILL not eating . I tried force feeding him but he just wouldn't open his mouth. I watched some videos online on how to do it. Maybe I just was being too gentle but I didn't want to hurt him or stress him too much. I'm just so frustrated and worried. Last night he acted super interested in food but missed a couple times and gave up and wouldn't touch the crickets. And he wont take food from tongs anymore at all. I just don't know what could possibly be stressing my poor frog so much. I'm at a total loss. Maybe these pictures will provide some more insight and to show you guys just how skinny he is .

Force feeding them can be stressful but if any of my frogs looked as emaciated as the frog in the photo you provided, I wouldnt hesitate to force feed the frog as soon as possible. Use a small playing card (make sure it doesnt have sharp edges) or a thin id card or credit card. When Ive had to do this I gently insert the corner (not a sharp corner) of the card into the SIDE of the frogs mouth. a very small amount of pressure and the frogs will generally open their mouths, then you just slip the food in as far as possible. It may help to have someone hold the frog still while you open its mouth with one hand and insert the food with another. Considering the difficulty of doing this, one somewhat larger food item, such as strip of catfish or a nightcrawler may make it easier. Im sure it can handle a nightcrawler.
I would also not hesitate to do as suggested and pick up some unflavored pedialyte to mix into some water and let the frog soak in it for a period of time every day. This will not only help keep the frog hydrated but the electrolytes in the pedialyte will give the frog a boost of energy and help stimulate appetite.
I would continue with force feeding every every couple to three days, depending on its age and rate of digestion, as well as the daily pedialyte soaks until the Frog no longer looks emaciated. If the frog continues to look emaciated after a few weeks, consider that it may have a a disease or bacterial infection.

I would also place the frog into a cage designed with a somewhat more spartan setting where the frog and its cage conditions can be more easily monitored until it returns to good health, such as a setup with very shallow (chin deep when at rest) water, with a land section consisting a section of spnge filter medium such as this Amazon.com: Black Economic Aquarium Filter Sponge for Fish Tank: Pet Supplies and a hide for the frogs security, using a low wattage red incandescent heat lamp for warmth. I prefer overhead heating of this manner as opposed to a undertank heater or having a "warm side and a cool side" because these frogs burrow (or hide under a log) to escape heat. So while the surface of the soil may be rather warm, it will remain cool underneath and the frog will regulate by either burrowing down a bit or coming to the surface (or coming in and out of its hide). A basking bearded dragon will move down from a basking spot and seek out the cool side of a tank or enclosure, as may a basking turtle, but Horned Frogs are not hardwired to walk off to the other side of their cage a bit, away from the heat if they get too warm.
Your current setup looks very elaborate and hard to clean, and bacteria can build up in these conditions very rapidly. With the spartan setup Ive suggested, you simply remove the frog, dump the water, rinse the filter medium and wipe out the tank.
In a more naturalistic setting I prefer Sphagnum moss over coco fiber, because it makes cleaning a bit easier. I also havent had too many plants survive the rather destructive nature of a large adult horned frog.
Thats my two cents. Good luck.

[Ra]

ALSO! Can the frog even get into that water dish? Or out of it for that matter? Consider a different soaking dish for your frog perhaps.

[HerpDerp]

Actually he just started eating last night so I'm thinking that force feeding is not going to be necessary (if he continues eating on his own). And you would be surprised how easy the tank is to clean. The plants that are in there are all in pots so I can take them out to clean and so he can't destroy the roots. It's very easy and effective. And the UTH is on the side of the tank not the bottom so he can still burrow to cool off. And he will go to the other side of the tank if he needs to. he usually is on the warm side in the morning and will move between the two sides throughout the day.

And yes, he can get into the water dish. Generally It's pushed into the substrate more usually. But he seems to have no problems getting in and out of it. It's only a temporary dish until he gets bigger. Because he will be outgrowing it soon I'm sure.

[GrifTheGreat]

Force feeding them can be stressful but if any of my frogs looked as emaciated as the frog in the photo you provided, I wouldnt hesitate to force feed the frog as soon as possible. Use a small playing card (make sure it doesnt have sharp edges) or a thin id card or credit card. When Ive had to do this I gently insert the corner (not a sharp corner) of the card into the SIDE of the frogs mouth. a very small amount of pressure and the frogs will generally open their mouths, then you just slip the food in as far as possible. It may help to have someone hold the frog still while you open its mouth with one hand and insert the food with another. Considering the difficulty of doing this, one somewhat larger food item, such as strip of catfish or a nightcrawler may make it easier. Im sure it can handle a nightcrawler.
I would also not hesitate to do as suggested and pick up some unflavored pedialyte to mix into some water and let the frog soak in it for a period of time every day. This will not only help keep the frog hydrated but the electrolytes in the pedialyte will give the frog a boost of energy and help stimulate appetite.
I would continue with force feeding every every couple to three days, depending on its age and rate of digestion, as well as the daily pedialyte soaks until the Frog no longer looks emaciated. If the frog continues to look emaciated after a few weeks, consider that it may have a a disease or bacterial infection.

I would also place the frog into a cage designed with a somewhat more spartan setting where the frog and its cage conditions can be more easily monitored until it returns to good health, such as a setup with very shallow (chin deep when at rest) water, with a land section consisting a section of spnge filter medium such as this Amazon.com: Black Economic Aquarium Filter Sponge for Fish Tank: Pet Supplies and a hide for the frogs security, using a low wattage red incandescent heat lamp for warmth. I prefer overhead heating of this manner as opposed to a undertank heater or having a "warm side and a cool side" because these frogs burrow (or hide under a log) to escape heat. So while the surface of the soil may be rather warm, it will remain cool underneath and the frog will regulate by either burrowing down a bit or coming to the surface (or coming in and out of its hide). A banking bearded dragon will move down from a basking spot and seek out the cool side of a tank or enclosure, as may a basking turtle, but Horned Frogs are not hardwired to walk off to the other side of their cage a bit, away from the heat if they get too warm.
Your current setup looks very elaborate and hard to clean, and bacteria can build up in these conditions very rapidly. With the spartan setup Ive suggested, you simply remove the frog, dump the water, rinse the filter medium and wipe out the tank.
In a more naturalistic setting I prefer Sphagnum moss over coco fiber, because it makes cleaning a bit easier. I also havent had too many plants survive the rather destructive nature of a large adult horned frog.
Thats my two cents. Good luck.

Moss is a serious impacting risk. The frog is Fed within its enclosure and removing the frog to feed at this point will cause unnecessary stress. Especially now that the frog has finally become comfortable enough to actually eat on its own.q

[HerpDerp]

I am happy to say that he ate again yesterday and is starting to look a little bit better. Definitely not as skinny. And I managed to do that without totally modifying his habitat and without force feeding. Such a weight off my shoulders. Now hopefully it stays that way! Thanks for all of the advice!

[Ivan M]

I am happy to say that he ate again yesterday and is starting to look a little bit better. Definitely not as skinny. And I managed to do that without totally modifying his habitat and without force feeding. Such a weight off my shoulders. Now hopefully it stays that way! Thanks for all of the advice!

EXCELLENT, keep everything the same for a little while, if he is eating in his own enclosure keep feeding him in there, after he puts on weight you can try feeding him out of his enclosure. Looks like you are on your way!

[Ra]

Anything they can get in there mouths in large enough quantity is an impaction risk. I recently read an account of a frog keeper whose caught an impaction early on, and with some warm water soaks a single force feeding dislodged a large amount of coco fiber from the frogs digestive track.

[GrifTheGreat]

Anything they can get in there mouths in large enough quantity is an impaction risk. I recently read an account of a frog keeper whose caught an impaction early on, and with some warm water soaks a single force feeding dislodged a large amount of coco fiber from the frogs digestive track.

I treat impaction with Luke warm baths with 3 to 4 drops of honey dissolved in it and usually force feed a dose of Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost). It usually does the trick in a day or 2.