Traded my horned frog

[braaandooon]

Well after a week of watching my suriname horned frogs' health dwindle, i traded my frog today, kinda sad i guess, but shes probaly in better hands considering the person i traded her too breeds cornutas, and even he believes the frog is in bad shape and most likely infested with parasites, he made alot of good points to me after comparing her now to her original stock photo, the good news, even though most people may think i made a bad trade, is that obtained a vicious little fantasy frog that was just recently breed and he had a nice little batch and was allowed to make a pick of my choice, i guess the rest are being wholesaled out in a few weeks, after looking through dozens of frogs, some green some red and some a mix, he must of thought i didnt seem to interested, or somthing, even though i was very interested, just the first time i have seen these frogs in person, and some of the mostly green ones caught my eyes, anyways after quietly observing all of them for a few minutes, he decided to pull one out that he personally picked out just to keep as a pet, and this thing acted like a little pitbull, he pulled its enclosure out of his nice rack system and here was this little frog jumping at the side of this bin like was intruding onto its territory, went to pick it up and observe it and the quick little booger lunged at me, after further inspection, this frog was definatly one of the biggest of the bunch, and had some odd coloring compared to any of the other frogs, almost like a washed out color, like you would see in a ghost phase snake, outside of the obvious suriname appereance , it had larger horns then most the others, and inside this ghostly grey of color had some red and pink that really stood out on the grey background, not sure if this may be a common color for these, but this definatly stood out compared to the others, he stated he had been breeding these frogs for years and had only seen one other fantasy like that which his father now keeps as a pet, but he also breeds cranwellis, ornates, and cornutas, and also mentioned he has had some almost fully translucent cranwellis in the past that sold for nice chunks of change, anyways after 5 hours of driving i got my frog home and settled in and it has already put down two crickets, i kinda feel bad as i dont condone trading what i feel is a sick animal and may die, but i guess it isnt to bad as he contacted me and offered the trade, and once there seemed more eager to get the trade done, either way just happy to have a fat little frog with personality galore, wish nikon would just honor there waranty and fix my camera so i could post some quality pictures, either way ill have a few posted in the coming days

[SethD]

If he has plenty of experience with both keeping and breeding horned frogs the cornuta probably won't die which is no doubt why he was more than willing to trade for it. The thing about wild caught cornuta is that they often refuse any other food but live frogs. A cornuta that will not touch a cricket, roach or mouse will usually eagerly take a tree frog or a small toad if it has the chance. Some will learn to eat other things eventually and some will continue to be stubborn about taking live frogs only short of force feeding. Many are finicky like that. You probably both got a good deal given your at different points in the hobby.

[Eel Noob]

Can't wait for pictures.

[John911]

Sounds pretty cool and you made the right decision. I was pretty tempted to pick up that pixie from that store.

[gtr319]

you did the right thing!! I am sure I'll do the same thing if I ever fall into your situation, can't wait for pictures!!

[onedge30]

Ooooo... yes, yes .... pictures please.

[braaandooon]

If he has plenty of experience with both keeping and breeding horned frogs the cornuta probably won't die which is no doubt why he was more than willing to trade for it. The thing about wild caught cornuta is that they often refuse any other food but live frogs. A cornuta that will not touch a cricket, roach or mouse will usually eagerly take a tree frog or a small toad if it has the chance. Some will learn to eat other things eventually and some will continue to be stubborn about taking live frogs only short of force feeding. Many are finicky like that. You probably both got a good deal given your at different points in the hobby.

well i definatly lack experience, and i have only kept one other frog, which is the cranwelli that resides in my bedroom and has done very well, i guess i just ran out of patience, in the final three days, i introduced a grey tree frog, and the suriname did not even move a finger in those three days, i may be no expert, but i know a sick animal when i see one, im pretty positive the stress and heat from shipping stressed this frog out to the point of awakening a bacterial or parasitic infection that had probably been lying dormant in this frog since arrival to the united states, i really did feel that the shipping box felt way to hot and the frog showed up in an almost lifeless state, received an update on the frog this morning and apparently there have been no improvement, so thats a bummer, but every once in awhile sometimes you just receive a bad apple, and those bad apples seem to pop up more with some of the animals i keep, like the cornuta, people typically buy groups and loose a few, just wish i had that kinda spare change, even the gulper catfish i keep are the same way, they require difficult to keep water conditions, and some attention to detail, these fish also jump started me into the pacman hobby as apparently i have a fascination with animals that can eat prey animals that equal in size, i had ordered three of those and ended up losing one, but i now have 2 giant healthy gulpers eating prey fish that almost double in size of itself, anyways i now have one great fantasy frog that just wont stop eating, which leads me to asking if a juvenile pacman frog can eat to much? i'll try to get some pics up soon, have to work all weekend, so pics will have to wait until i get some free time

[braaandooon]

also just glad i was able to get somthing in return, in most cases i wouldve been stuck with a dying animal, even though theres a possibility of the suriname recovering, i like my odds with the fantasy frog, i even still have a grey tree frog thats life was spared buy the horned frog not eating it, but unfortunately i have to find it a new home because my better half will only let me keep two frogs so that sucks to, luckily i know someone that wants to add a tree frog to there collection

[braaandooon]

well received the bad news today that the suriname i had traded has passed away, kind of a bummer, i feel a little bad that this frog couldnt pull through, sometimes the inevitable happens, at least my new friend wasnt to upset as he has what seems like hundreds of frogs, and knew this frog was sick, anyways he wished me well with the fantasy frog he traded me, anyways my new frog is doing well and eating like crazy, pooping well and seems more at ease in his new surrounding, i took a few pics but just not digging the quality, maybe el noob could let me borrow his a camera for a week or two, j/k

[John911]

Sucks to hear. I'm very tempted to pick up the pixie at that shop. But will probably hold off because 7 frogs in 2 months is enough.

[braaandooon]

Sucks to hear. I'm very tempted to pick up the pixie at that shop. But will probably hold off because 7 frogs in 2 months is enough.

are you talking about the pixie located in plainfield, if so i would grab it, that shop there is really nice, even though i didnt have the best of luck with the suriname i received from there, i attribute that more to shipping stress, i wish i wouldve just made the drive i guess a 6 hour round trip didnt sound good at the time, but after the fact i learned my frog was sick i made a 5 hour round trip to make a trade, i make no sense sometimes, but you live and you learn, 7 frogs is quite a bit in two months, maybe if i didnt have three mouths to feed and cloth i too could start keeping more frogs, or better yet i can just be blessed with a better paying job, lol, i would still like to get my hands on some colorado river toads sometime, maybe for christmas if i'm good, theres also a few aquatic salamanders i would also like to keep, a hellbender would be nice, as i have seen a few on the blue river that is only an hour east of me, but these things are on on the verge of extinction due to pollution, global warming, etc, i actually found a few young ones while hicking along the river but my conscience wouldnt allow me to take one considering there status, i wish there was a captive breeding program for these as there are for axolotls, anderson's salamanders, mudpuppies, etc

[John911]

are you talking about the pixie located in plainfield, if so i would grab it, that shop there is really nice.

Yup. I just realized i posted about the pixie twice in the same thread lol. I'm gonna hold off for a while.

[Deku]

I know more about fish than I know that about frogs. I will say this gulper catfish are one of my favorite fish(its on the top 3). But they are expensive as a heck hole. They can run up from 200bucks to 400bucks or more. Ived seen them at some auctions. Ived seen them online(Very very very rarely). Ived seen them in some stores(only once). Their price is extremely high. I hear you on that one. You have to have some experience under your belt to even keep one. Not because its hard to care for. But because you dont want to screw up and having it die and then flushing down a 200-400dollar fish. Sometimes they even run up to 600bucks!!! Ill say this. If you have enough money for that Iam sure youd have enough to get a batch(joke-money wise). Animals arent perfect. Just because you give the animal proper care, and everything they need. Does not mean itll be a 100% safe. Some even die randomly. We are not gods. We cannot go like "HUSHA! I COMMAND YOU TO LIVE AND NOT DIE!". It doesnt work like that. In nature alot of the animals that are born die within their first or second year. Making it to adulthood is actually a rare site in nature. But since animals breed by the millions then they have some chance of survival. On an enclosure they have 80% of survival; the other 10% is actually on the animal itself and luck and thats if its captive bred. If its wild caught chances are lowered to atleast 65%! Maybe even less. Point is=dont beat yourself up for it. Everyone makes mistakes. You said you are a starter on frogs right? Well there ya go. You kept a wild animal and it lasted a long time with you. Thats pretty good. Alot of people who literary JUST start out and go out and buy something extremely exotic end up having the animal die within a week or two. Also the "Ease" of care is not something to be taken lightly. Its not a test. When we say something is "Easy" to take care of it doesnt mean it wont die. It just means its easier to care for than say a rare, endangered frog.

Like example:
Green Tree frogs(american)
Gray Tree frog
Dumpy's tree frog
Fire belly toads
Red eared sliders
Painted turtles
Yellow belly sliders
Ball pythons
Corn snakes

Are all easier to take care of than say
Dart frogs
mantellas
arrow frogs
tree toads
cormuttas
Soft shelled turtles
Bog turtles
Map turtles
Snapping turtles
Carpet pythons
Taiwan Red Rat snake.

You know? But you did a good job to return it and exchange it for a different and simpler one.

[braaandooon]

I know more about fish than I know that about frogs. I will say this gulper catfish are one of my favorite fish(its on the top 3). But they are expensive as a heck hole. They can run up from 200bucks to 400bucks or more. Ived seen them at some auctions. Ived seen them online(Very very very rarely). Ived seen them in some stores(only once). Their price is extremely high. I hear you on that one. You have to have some experience under your belt to even keep one. Not because its hard to care for. But because you dont want to screw up and having it die and then flushing down a 200-400dollar fish. Sometimes they even run up to 600bucks!!! Ill say this. If you have enough money for that Iam sure youd have enough to get a batch(joke-money wise). Animals arent perfect. Just because you give the animal proper care, and everything they need. Does not mean itll be a 100% safe. Some even die randomly. We are not gods. We cannot go like "HUSHA! I COMMAND YOU TO LIVE AND NOT DIE!". It doesnt work like that. In nature alot of the animals that are born die within their first or second year. Making it to adulthood is actually a rare site in nature. But since animals breed by the millions then they have some chance of survival. On an enclosure they have 80% of survival; the other 10% is actually on the animal itself and luck and thats if its captive bred. If its wild caught chances are lowered to atleast 65%! Maybe even less. Point is=dont beat yourself up for it. Everyone makes mistakes. You said you are a starter on frogs right? Well there ya go. You kept a wild animal and it lasted a long time with you. Thats pretty good. Alot of people who literary JUST start out and go out and buy something extremely exotic end up having the animal die within a week or two. Also the "Ease" of care is not something to be taken lightly. Its not a test. When we say something is "Easy" to take care of it doesnt mean it wont die. It just means its easier to care for than say a rare, endangered frog.

Like example:
Green Tree frogs(american)
Gray Tree frog
Dumpy's tree frog
Fire belly toads
Red eared sliders
Painted turtles
Yellow belly sliders
Ball pythons
Corn snakes

Are all easier to take care of than say
Dart frogs
mantellas
arrow frogs
tree toads
cormuttas
Soft shelled turtles
Bog turtles
Map turtles
Snapping turtles
Carpet pythons
Taiwan Red Rat snake.

You know? But you did a good job to return it and exchange it for a different and simpler one.

yah i hear you on the gulper catfish prices, i actually got an awesome deal on mine i ordered 3 - 4" specimens 4 years ago and paid 60 a piece, for them, ordered them from rich from infinite aquatics, great guy, unfortunately rich is taking a break from the trade, and hasnt had these fish at that price since then, but yah now the cheapest you see a gulper for is 150 for a 3 incher , the bigger they get the pricier, i did end up losing one of the originals due to columnaris, due to of course usps shipping, there overnight turned into 2 days and after 70 dollars worth of kannaplex and a few weeks of daily water changes i had a male and female pull through, ive been trying to breed these fish the last two years and hopefully this year will be the year considering they are now fully mature, money wasnt so much of an issue then as i only had one daughter at the time, and was doing well in the once thriving rv industry, nowadays i work 3 part time jobs and have three children so a group of cornutas is kinda out of the question, atleast im done having children, and would love to try to keep a cornuta again one day, but will definatly stick to a captive bred animal, hopefully this will be sooner then later but there is also some other amphibians id like to keep that are higher up on my list at this time, a hellbender basically being the holy grail for me, but the odds of me finding one without illegally taking it out of its habitat is close to none, thats probaly more of a discussion suited for the caudata forum, but i dont like that forum and its communist ways, they hack apart my every post, i should start a thread about these in the off topic section, maybe someone out there may know of a source, but for now ill stick to refining my pacman skills and maybe one of these years try out some breeding, as breeding to me is a very rewarding part the hobby, ive breed plenty of central american cichlids, and one day hope to breed a few amphibians

[Deku]

yah i hear you on the gulper catfish prices, i actually got an awesome deal on mine i ordered 3 - 4" specimens 4 years ago and paid 60 a piece, for them, ordered them from rich from infinite aquatics, great guy, unfortunately rich is taking a break from the trade, and hasnt had these fish at that price since then, but yah now the cheapest you see a gulper for is 150 for a 3 incher , the bigger they get the pricier, i did end up losing one of the originals due to columnaris, due to of course usps shipping, there overnight turned into 2 days and after 70 dollars worth of kannaplex and a few weeks of daily water changes i had a male and female pull through, ive been trying to breed these fish the last two years and hopefully this year will be the year considering they are now fully mature, money wasnt so much of an issue then as i only had one daughter at the time, and was doing well in the once thriving rv industry, nowadays i work 3 part time jobs and have three children so a group of cornutas is kinda out of the question, atleast im done having children, and would love to try to keep a cornuta again one day, but will definatly stick to a captive bred animal, hopefully this will be sooner then later but there is also some other amphibians id like to keep that are higher up on my list at this time, a hellbender basically being the holy grail for me, but the odds of me finding one without illegally taking it out of its habitat is close to none, thats probaly more of a discussion suited for the caudata forum, but i dont like that forum and its communist ways, they hack apart my every post, i should start a thread about these in the off topic section, maybe someone out there may know of a source, but for now ill stick to refining my pacman skills and maybe one of these years try out some breeding, as breeding to me is a very rewarding part the hobby, ive breed plenty of central american cichlids, and one day hope to breed a few amphibians

I wanted to get a few because I hear they are a nice fish to own:
1)Active
2)Hardy(generally)
3)Strong appetite
4)Awesome shape and size(it doesnt grow past 6inches -USSUALLY-)

Only downsides its a risk. You MUST already have the tank cylced. You MUST have a quarantine tank. You must have knowledge about them. You cant feed them nilly willy. Like they tend to beg sometimes. You cannot give into that. Also you have to keep an eye on them since they live a long time. But again you dont want the money to go down the drain(seriously). You know it sounds wrong to say it like that. But their prices. Ived been trying to get a trio cheap. But its hard. Also I dont know much about them except the basics. So I dont want to enter a territory where I have no clue where Iam going. You know? But honestly dude. Thats a good find and congrats on that. Sure one fish death is bad. But its better than loosing a 200-500dollar fish. Lol. Also atleast you still have two alive.

One thing I must mention. Gulper catfish have no scales; therefore they are more sensitive to water quality. Scaleless fish tend to be more sensitive this means; catfish, puffers, and a few others. Only thing is you have to cycle the tank fishless. Also you have to be very careful with medicines. You should use low dosage. Since it not only will harm anything inside it but whatevers outside it as well. For tanks you NORMALLY dont need carbon. But for fish like these you actually need it. Carbon eats up any bad chems in the water. But you cant over use it otherwise it will also take the good stuff out of the water furthering harm on your fish. :P Id love to see some pictures sometime! As for your cornuta I hope its alright! Generally Iam wary about what I buy. I like buying hardy things JUST in case if I mess up somehow itll still leave me some elbow room to make it better.

[braaandooon]

I wanted to get a few because I hear they are a nice fish to own:
1)Active
2)Hardy(generally)
3)Strong appetite
4)Awesome shape and size(it doesnt grow past 6inches -USSUALLY-)

Only downsides its a risk. You MUST already have the tank cylced. You MUST have a quarantine tank. You must have knowledge about them. You cant feed them nilly willy. Like they tend to beg sometimes. You cannot give into that. Also you have to keep an eye on them since they live a long time. But again you dont want the money to go down the drain(seriously). You know it sounds wrong to say it like that. But their prices. Ived been trying to get a trio cheap. But its hard. Also I dont know much about them except the basics. So I dont want to enter a territory where I have no clue where Iam going. You know? But honestly dude. Thats a good find and congrats on that. Sure one fish death is bad. But its better than loosing a 200-500dollar fish. Lol. Also atleast you still have two alive.

One thing I must mention. Gulper catfish have no scales; therefore they are more sensitive to water quality. Scaleless fish tend to be more sensitive this means; catfish, puffers, and a few others. Only thing is you have to cycle the tank fishless. Also you have to be very careful with medicines. You should use low dosage. Since it not only will harm anything inside it but whatevers outside it as well. For tanks you NORMALLY dont need carbon. But for fish like these you actually need it. Carbon eats up any bad chems in the water. But you cant over use it otherwise it will also take the good stuff out of the water furthering harm on your fish. :P Id love to see some pictures sometime! As for your cornuta I hope its alright! Generally Iam wary about what I buy. I like buying hardy things JUST in case if I mess up somehow itll still leave me some elbow room to make it better.

well the main thing with gulper catfish is keeping there water very soft, they inhabit blackwater rivers with some current, a powerhead is definatly recommended as the added current brings these guys to life, otherwise they just hide behind driftwood , and driftwood is a must as they are driftwood catfishes and hide in driftwood to ambush there prey, they are pretty much like a fish version of a pacman frog, lol, they also grow larger than 6 inches, i keep both of mine in a 55g and they are both pushing a foot long, but havent grown noticeably in the last year, theres a place in ohio that has 13 incher for sale at 250, its been on aquabid for quite awhile, you could actually keep one of these in a 20 long as they are not quick, hell the only time mine are out swimming is during night hours and they swim directly into the current of my powerhead, kinda like a person running on a treadmill, the only real problem i have with them is keeping my ph below 7.0, i have to buy reverse osmosis water to do water changes, outside of that they are awesome fish and i mainly feed worms, and prawns, i also keep blue cetopsis catfish, these things are vicious and once through a rat into my tank and my school of five ate this rat from the inside out in a matter of minutes, i do not recommend this though as mammalian meat is bad for aquaria, anyways heres a pic of my gulpers, and one of my blue cetopsis(these were recently on an episode of river monsters)i may also want to start a new thread on this also as we are kinda getting away from the original topic but i just love talking about and showing off my animals, sorry about pic quality these were taken on a palm centro a few years back

[Deku]

hmm if it grows that big I guess I cant get em. Even if they will fit in a 40breeder. it doesnt matter. I think all animals should be given space even if they are lazy bums. Though I think osmosis water is bad for tanks other than reefs. Because they lack minerals found in fresh water. Which is bad. As for the thread. Yeah we can do that. :P Try feeding them earthworms once in a while. Iam sure theyd love it.

[braaandooon]

all my animals eat earthworms, lol, except my cat, she eats flies, reverse osmosis isnt too bad for water changes, i definitely wouldnt recommend starting a tank with it, as that mineral base is not there, i use this water as its softer than a neutral ph of 7, the water i get carries a ph of a little over 5, the reason for using this for me is that enviormental factors in my tank allow my ph to raise over time, these fish do best in a ph of 6.5, my tap water is around 7.5, so isnt real suitible for my gulpers, usually within two weeks of time my ph jumps from that nice 6.5 mark to 7.5 and if i miss a water change gets closer to 8, i did use spring water in the past but the neutral ph levels wouldnt bring my ph down to where i need it unless i do somthing like a 50 percent water change every week, the only factors i can think of that do this is the calcium that builds on my filters, everything i keep in my tank is there to help stabalize ph, driftwood, slate, clay,etc, i even keep peat in some of my filter cartridges to keep the water soft, really these fish are like keeping discus with a current, if you ever do decide to keep these and want to keep other fish, the only fish i recommend that is smaller are spotted rapheals, they are hard and spiny, my gulpers try to eat these but wind up just spitting them out, outside of that you will need somthing like a 240g and house them with fish atleast double in size(a 12 inch gulper can and will eat a 20 inch plus arowana) so fish of the slender variety arent good to stock either, i also use this water to mist my frogs, a lot of my gecko keeping friends swear by this as the minerals in tap water are not beneficial to most gecko species, and tap water can actually kill cat geckos if used over a period of time, not sure if any of this applies to frogs outside of the chlorine, flouride, etc in tap water are bad for amphibians, reptiles, etc

[Deku]

all my animals eat earthworms, lol, except my cat, she eats flies, reverse osmosis isnt too bad for water changes, i definitely wouldnt recommend starting a tank with it, as that mineral base is not there, i use this water as its softer than a neutral ph of 7, the water i get carries a ph of a little over 5, the reason for using this for me is that enviormental factors in my tank allow my ph to raise over time, these fish do best in a ph of 6.5, my tap water is around 7.5, so isnt real suitible for my gulpers, usually within two weeks of time my ph jumps from that nice 6.5 mark to 7.5 and if i miss a water change gets closer to 8, i did use spring water in the past but the neutral ph levels wouldnt bring my ph down to where i need it unless i do somthing like a 50 percent water change every week, the only factors i can think of that do this is the calcium that builds on my filters, everything i keep in my tank is there to help stabalize ph, driftwood, slate, clay,etc, i even keep peat in some of my filter cartridges to keep the water soft, really these fish are like keeping discus with a current, if you ever do decide to keep these and want to keep other fish, the only fish i recommend that is smaller are spotted rapheals, they are hard and spiny, my gulpers try to eat these but wind up just spitting them out, outside of that you will need somthing like a 240g and house them with fish atleast double in size(a 12 inch gulper can and will eat a 20 inch plus arowana) so fish of the slender variety arent good to stock either, i also use this water to mist my frogs, a lot of my gecko keeping friends swear by this as the minerals in tap water are not beneficial to most gecko species, and tap water can actually kill cat geckos if used over a period of time, not sure if any of this applies to frogs outside of the chlorine, flouride, etc in tap water are bad for amphibians, reptiles, etc

I like raphaels look. But not attitude. They hide more than anyt catfish Ived known.
Currently only fish Iam trying to keep are ones that my turtle wont be able to munch on. He already ate a goldfish(large one). Its a painted turtle but figures he still goes for fish. I may try a cichlid. See if the turtle strikes the cichlid will most likely strike back. I dont know yet. Though I still have some common goldfish and one fancy goldfish with it. Theyve grown. The commons are 4-5inches. I may end up giving them away or keep them there. In any case Id take the turtle to the vet first and clean out the tank before anything is added. YOu know to prevent further bacteria(bad kind) and parasites from bothering them. Though they are fine currently.

Anywho gulpers are a favorite but they just dont cut it for me because of the enormous size.

[Kurt]

Sucks to hear. I'm very tempted to pick up the pixie at that shop. But will probably hold off because 7 frogs in 2 months is enough.

Blasphemy!!!!