Dead RETF

[Evanj]

So I went to a reptile expo this weekend and left the roommate to take care of the frogs. come home to find one dead, and the other clinging onto life. Lost her ten minutes later. I love reptiles, and I absolutely love these guys. I SPOIL them.(bought a mister, coco husk, and moss mat to put in the enclosure from the Expo)

More or less I would like to narrow down what cause them to die. The water dish was bone dry. I'm just curious as to wether this could have been the cause as I was gone Friday aft back Sunday night, dish had water Friday.

Before you flame, YES I change the water daily. Exo-terra 18x18x24".
I typically keep the humidity around 70-80%. UTH to help keep the temp around 80F. Feed about every two to three days(there were crickets in there when I left). Substrate is bark with moss on top to retain moisture.

My thoughts are dehydration, humidity was down to 40. She says she misted it once saturday but didn't notice the dish empty. How long will they last with no water?

[ViperJr]

I'm sorry for your loss. It's a good thing you try to figure out what's wrong.
My guess would be dehydration. If you did not have a mister/fogger, no source of water (since the bowl was dry) and somekind of ventilation (like a screen top of an exo-terra) combined with a UTH, there would not have been much moist in the air. These little guys come from Costa Rica where it's very moist and high humidity.

I would recommend waiting for more replies as well, someone might have another idea.

[bshmerlie]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I would also say dehydration. I don't think it would take that long for them to expire with it being so hot in the tank and no water source. I keep my temps in the mid 70's for my frogs and leave extra water bowls in all my tanks during the summer months just in case. Ventilation is good but too much can also dry them out. Don't use a heater until the fall at the earliest. Also keep an eye on how much heat your light fixture may put out. A mister is a good idea and will allow you to take a vacation and not have to worry so much about your frogs. Again, sorry to hear about your frogs. Hang in there and try again.

[Treefrognewbie]

that's terrible! Sorry for your losses!

[Evanj]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I would also say dehydration. I don't think it would take that long for them to expire with it being so hot in the tank and no water source. I keep my temps in the mid 70's for my frogs and leave extra water bowls in all my tanks during the summer months just in case. Ventilation is good but too much can also dry them out. Don't use a heater until the fall at the earliest. Also keep an eye on how much heat your light fixture may put out. A mister is a good idea and will allow you to take a vacation and not have to worry so much about your frogs. Again, sorry to hear about your frogs. Hang in there and try again.

I'm from Canada so I need to run the UTH to keep it a bit higher. Its a very small one so it doesn't give off much. Temp is usually 75-85F. If I turn it off it will sink. Sometimes it would go as low as 60.(roommate again, cranks the A/c, vents closed in their room to help.) I have also sealed off half of the screen top to help retain moisture within the hide. I'm going to use a moss mat, then clump come coco husk and more spaghum moss to help retain the moisture more consistently. I'll also set up my mister and get things consistent in there and then go about getting some new RETF.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

[ViperJr]

Your steps towards making it a better terrarium sounds good. Sphagnum retain moist freakishly well and the mister will be a good way to add humidity frequently (combined with a timer, it's your best friend). Live plants keeps the humidity levels more stable as well. I do believe 60F is too cold for them to experience at any length of time. You might want to consider getting additional heating devices, so you can use just enough for every situation (both at winter, 1 at spring, 0 at winter, for example). Placement of the UTH is important as well. Do you have it on one of the sides, or beneath the tank?
UTH below the tank is a good way to create a vaporization-drainage, but it does create very little heat to the actual space in the tank. An UTH on the side, will heat the air within the terrarium and serve its purpose more efficiently.

Another suggestion would be live plants. Lots of live plants. Not only for the humidity stability, but for the hiding and climbing opportunities it provides. Of course, you might already have plenty of these, but since you did not mention it I figured I might as well say it

[Evanj]

Your steps towards making it a better terrarium sounds good. Sphagnum retain moist freakishly well and the mister will be a good way to add humidity frequently (combined with a timer, it's your best friend). Live plants keeps the humidity levels more stable as well. I do believe 60F is too cold for them to experience at any length of time. You might want to consider getting additional heating devices, so you can use just enough for every situation (both at winter, 1 at spring, 0 at winter, for example). Placement of the UTH is important as well. Do you have it on one of the sides, or beneath the tank?
UTH below the tank is a good way to create a vaporization-drainage, but it does create very little heat to the actual space in the tank. An UTH on the side, will heat the air within the terrarium and serve its purpose more efficiently.

Another suggestion would be live plants. Lots of live plants. Not only for the humidity stability, but for the hiding and climbing opportunities it provides. Of course, you might already have plenty of these, but since you did not mention it I figured I might as well say it

Thank for the reply. I don't let it sink to 60 I just meant if I turn the UTH off it would as it was previously mentioned to leave the heater off until fall.

I never thought about the UTH on the side, could this cause problems if they roost against the glass on that side ie. Burns. Thanks for the suggestion I will consider trying that! I also have 0 live plats just due to the extra work and my lack of knowledge of good plants to use. That's moreso why I have always used the moss to help retain the moisture.

Any other suggestions fire away. The UTH and the live plants suggestions I will consider! Thank you!!

[ViperJr]

UTH on the side of the tank is standard, I would say. Most people seem to use that to create good temperature (I personally use bulbs to create heat). Like I said before, UTH on the bottom creates very little effective heat.
About the live plants, there are many topics about plants for red-eyes. If you are afraid of the "extra work", go get a pothos (Epipremnum aureum). It's excellent for climbing and hiding, it grows very fast, it grows everywhere (it uses roots to attach itself to objects), it can be grown epiphytically (which mean that you don't need to water them traditionally, they get their moist through the leaves), it's sturdy and it's hard to kill. If you ask me, they're the optimal red-eye plant.


Here's my terrarium. You see the leaves that are absolutely everywhere, from the top to bottom, left to right? That's the pothos!




EDIT: You need to select a country in your profile. You agreed to do that when you accepted the license of agreement (I believe).

[Evanj]

UTH on the side of the tank is standard, I would say. Most people seem to use that to create good temperature (I personally use bulbs to create heat). Like I said before, UTH on the bottom creates very little effective heat.
About the live plants, there are many topics about plants for red-eyes. If you are afraid of the "extra work", go get a pothos (Epipremnum aureum). It's excellent for climbing and hiding, it grows very fast, it grows everywhere (it uses roots to attach itself to objects), it can be grown epiphytically (which mean that you don't need to water them traditionally, they get their moist through the leaves), it's sturdy and it's hard to kill. If you ask me, they're the optimal red-eye plant.


Here's my terrarium. You see the leaves that are absolutely everywhere, from the top to bottom, left to right? That's the pothos!




EDIT: You need to select a country in your profile. You agreed to do that when you accepted the license of agreement (I believe).

Thanks again! I'll look into that plant tonight! I've just been weary due to UVA/UVB. There a bit of sunlight in the room but not alot as I don't want to cook the poor guys.

[ViperJr]

UVB is totally unnecessary and should be avoided, since it just an unnecessary risk. You can use UVA to increase the growth of the plants, but other kinds of light works as well (I know some that just use a daylight bulb from Lowe or Home Depot). An low-UV compact fluorescent light bulb from Exo-terra is what I use to make the plants thrive like they do. They do not generate much heat, definitely less than a incandescent bulb, so you should not be able to cook the frogs with these. However, you should always keep an eye on the thermometer, especially if you have a new setting regarding light and/or heating.

[bshmerlie]

Ideally you want the heat to come from up above with heat lamps but I don't usually recommend it because some people new to frogs have cooked their frogs this way. But if you live in a cold climate you are probably going to have to go that route. I would use a Thermostat to make sure it stays at the temperature that you want. I would say keep your Red Eyes around the 78 degree range with a 5 degree drop at night. I agree with Martin you want to have lots of live plants not only for them to climb on but it also helps you to maintain a consistent humidity. With a ton of plants and the moss on the bottom you will have happy and healthy frogs. They will be able to move to different parts of the terrarium where it is cooler or warmer or more humid. Check out the ZooMed Hygro Therm. It monitors your humidity and your temps and will turn on and off your devices to help maintain exactly what you set it at. It can also be programed to have drops in those readings at night. In the US they are around $75. That way you can plug in your heating device and mister and it will maintain your readings for you, turning them on and off as necessary.