Question about types of wood to use

[meganmcnerney]

Caudata Culture Articles - Wood in Vivaria

This link was provided in many posts about the types of wood that you can use in a Viv and how to clean it. It states that there are several types of wood to avoid and I was wondering if this applied to tree frogs as well. I have a wooded backyard full of oak trees and some pine trees, so I would have ample supply of natural "furniture" to put in my viv. But this article appears to discourage oak and pine trees.

I don't want to hurt my growing gray tree frogs, so I thought I would verify before purchasing wood.

Thanks!
Megan

[John]

Definitely avoid pine. It's a resinous wood and is more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. Oak may be alright, but probably not in a a tropical terrarium (Gray Tree Frogs should not be in a tropical terrarium so you should be alright).

[Peakone]

Many peoples in Bulgaria use grape wood in aquariums and there seems to be no problems for the inhabitants and i was about to put some in the viv im preparing for leptopelis vermiculatus, good thing that i saw this topic and the link to caudata.org. This means there is no wood i can take from the forest, cuz there is only oak, beech and pine.

We actually have a black cherry (prunus serotina), hazelnut and apple trees that have never been treated with pesticides, but the likelihood of toxicity stops me from using them. What would you say, can any of them serve for the purpose without a risk?

[Lacibeth]

The issue w/ oak is the concentration of the tannins, and the fact that one of tannin compounds tends to combine w/ other stuff and cause massive digestive problems in mammals. Buds, leaves and acorns contain the highest concentrations. Acorns can be used as a human food source if they've been boiled to leach the tannins (that tannin rich water can be used a dye source). I don't see why the bark/wood can't be treated the same way. The red oak group has a higher concentration than the white oak group. Eucalypts are an issue for the same reason and there are indications that oysters have been killed when there are too many eucalypt leaves in the water.

The risk with cherry (and I think most of the Prunus spp.) is hydrocyanic acid but the majority of that is contained in the leaves, buds, and seeds and has to be ingested. Hazel is in the birch family and birches are another source for tannins.

Interestingly, the tannins contained in cranberries are what work to prevent urinary tract infections.

[SludgeMunkey]

Oak is the limestone of vivaria building. While the risk of tannin toxicity is there, it really depends on the application and most importantly, the type of oak.

The term "oak" is applied locally to a good many species that are not actually oak. This makes positive identification difficult for many folks. Truth be told, for terrestrial use, if the wood has been boiled for a few hours with the water changed until it stays clear, the risk of using true oak branches and bark is nil.

The example of tanins in vivaria I like to use is mopani wood. This is probably the most commonly sold wood in pet shops. It puts oak to shame when it comes to the level of tannins. It contains other volatile organic compounds on top of the tannins. It is often called "Kerosene Tree" for a reason! This stuff is insect and fungi resistant and burns like fat wood. However, most processed Mopani wood is boiled and processed by the supplier. It should also be boiled by the owner until the water is clear

Pines, true cedars, and most other conifers are definitely a no go in vivaria due to the various acids that outgas over time. These cause severe respiratory issues in pets and humans.

Black cherry is definitely a no-go. There are a number of alkaloids in the wood, bark and sap that "could" pose a risk to captive amphibians, however hard data on the effects is difficult to find. (Nor would I risk killing my pets to find out!). As for other fruit and nut trees, if they are not mentioned in the article, my advice is research, research, research. In the time it takes to type a question in the forums and wait for an answer, you can get thousands of pages of data to find out for yourself much faster.

Grapewood is another one of those tricky ones as what is called grapewood in some places may not actually be grapewood. Grapewood should NEVER be used in aquatic enclosures or any high humidity enclosure. There are dangerous alkaloids in this wood and sap.

[frogluver]

My house is surrounded by trees, mostly evergreen, birch, and cottonwood. Several times I have gone walking in the forest, found really cool pieces of wood and gone “This would be perfect for my Whites Tree frog’s terrarium! But how would I be able to clean it and make it ‘frog safe’?”

So I did some research online a few years ago, to try and find a way to clean the pieces of wood I found. I ended up finding an article from Melissa Kaplan’s Herp Care Collection, titled Treating Wild-Caught Wood, here’s the link (http://www.anapsid.org/wildwood.html ).

I followed the instructions as written, except I increased the amount of soaking time for steps 2 and 3 from 24 hours to 48-72 hours, just to be safe. Also, for the first few months in the tank, the pieces of wood experienced some excessive molding. I solved this problem by placing a flat rock under the part of the wood that touched the ground. Other than that, after 3 years of being in my Whites Tree Frog’s terrarium, the wood has faired well.

[Peakone]

Thank you for the detailed explanations! Although i still have a question about the woods i collected from my trip this weekend.

I found a branch of platanus orientalis on a river side, but it cant be categorized as driftwood, cause i dont think the water rly washed it, but just fell from the trees nearby. I failed to find info about its toxicity, only that its used for some medicines and i dont know if i can use it or not. Here is a pic of it:



What else i found was another branch of either from beech or pine. So im curious if its still harmful since it has been dead for a while and even moss have began to grow over it or its still consists the tannin ?





I want to apologize if i annoy you with my stupid questions, but i dont rly have the option of buying wood from pet store since terraristic is far from common in Bulgaria, especially amphibians.

Thanks in advance.

[Lacibeth]

The common Platanus sp. here is american sycamore (aka buttonwood). I can't think of anything especially harmful about it. I'd boil and bake before I used the branch, but you should be good. If you can't definitively identify the second piece as pine vs beech then I wouldn't use it, as Johnny says pine is a no-go.