20 long D. leucomelas journal

[Voltage]

Hello. I'm new here. I'm in a rush right now but really wanted to get this started. So i'm in the process of building a 20 gallon long dendrobate luecmelas vivarium. This being my first vivarium, i'm really excited. I've been keeping/breeding tree frogs but have never made a nice vivarium with a background or even live plants. After doing research, I will NOT have a water feature, I WILL house 2 luecs, I WILL have a background, I WILL have a false bottom (Hydroton), I WILL have MANY live plants, I AM welcome to feedback, and I WILL work hard on this. I already have many plants in a grow out tank (Many plants, will not name all, but heres a few: 3 bromeliads (1 zoe, 2 midgets), ficus pumila oak leaf, golden pothos, red wandering jew, rabbit foot fern, 1 orchid (not sure on exact name), and about 10 more I don't have the names on the tip of my tounge. The background is great stuff expanding foam/silicone (ACE black silicone, clearly mentions Mold Inhibitor, BUT it has much less than GE silicone II, which many people use)/peat moss. I'm hoping the peat moss will grow green over time (peatmoss is spagnum moss) and I hope all the plants do well. Here is the start of the journal (HINT: always do foam in LAYERS, very thin layers, not all at once)

Shot at 2011-08-08


Shot at 2011-08-08


Shot at 2011-08-08


Shot at 2011-08-08


Shot at 2011-08-08


Shot at 2011-08-08

I ripped the roots out after they've expanded, I didn't like em.

Shot at 2011-08-08

Lighting- 1 17w T8 bulb (also will add 1-20w T5 bulb)

Shot at 2011-08-08

Just after peatmoss/silicone

Shot at 2011-08-08

After silicone peat touchups, sitting in green house to air out for a few days (fumes!)

Shot at 2011-08-08

FTS in greenhouse

Shot at 2011-08-08

Next is planting and I will get my frogs August 13, which is the herp show here. I plan on getting either a 2.0, 1.1, or 2.1 of luecs.

[nos187]

Nice looking tank! Cant wait to see it planted =)

Did you end up doing a false bottom?

-Kevin

[bshmerlie]

It looks like it is coming along great. Can't wait to see it finished.

[Voltage]

Actually no, I didn't want to take a 2 hour drive to get eggcrate or hydroton, so I just put the substrate in. For substrate It is kind of like ABG mix, and here it is. 1 part charcoal, 1 part Peat moss, and 2 parts tree fern fiber, and 1 part semi dried aspen leaves from backyard. I actually lightly planted it a few hours ago but am still waiting for the silicone to cure. I don't really need to let the silicone air out because it's acid base, and after 24 hours there will be almost no smell. I stil need more ficus pumila (walmart has baskets of about 100 feet total of ficus pumila for 10 bucks) and a few other plants i'll have to add too. It looks like a forest floor! I have tons of small plants in the bottom of the tank with a little of leaf litter, and that greatly represents the forest floor. I also have tons of broms on the background

[Voltage]

Oh no On the far right side of the tank the backside of the expanding foam appears to of shrunk and come off the glass. Why is this happening? UGH!

[DonLisk]

It sounds like to did apply the foam correctly from the start so I have no idea why it would shrink up.
Did you clean the glass with anything before applying the foam? I use Wipe-out since I know it doesn't leave a residue behind. Virginia would also work.

One thought here would be to see if you can inject some silicone in behind the piece coming off to secure it. Maybe prop it into place with something while the silicone dries.

[Kisa]

Great looking tank so far, I can't wait to see the finished product. Sorry you're having trouble though, I hope it gets resolved. D:

[John]

Great photo journal. I'll keep an eye on your progress . Thanks for explaining what you're doing.

I usually put some aquarium silicone (just a few lines) on the back of the tank before I spray the foam. I also don't believe in layering it - it will have better cohesion if it all cures together. Curing takes a long time though if it's a thick layer, which is a downside.

I think you'll regret not having a drainage layer. The substrate will become anaerobic, won't support so many micro organisms, and it will likely be somewhat more smelly than it should be.

[MikeM670]

Great photo journal. I'll keep an eye on your progress . Thanks for explaining what you're doing.

I usually put some aquarium silicone (just a few lines) on the back of the tank before I spray the foam. I also don't believe in layering it - it will have better cohesion if it all cures together. Curing takes a long time though if it's a thick layer, which is a downside.

I think you'll regret not having a drainage layer. The substrate will become anaerobic, won't support so many micro organisms, and it will likely be somewhat more smelly than it should be.

Like John says your substrate should never have a unpleasant smell. It should have a nice earthy smell. As for the foam pulling away. That just happen to my 40 vert build. The top area on one side pulled away down towards the majority of the foam. Is that what happen to you? I just sprayed some more foam behind it to secure it in place.

[DonLisk]

I wonder if this happens when the foam is done in layers since the new foam layer as it dries is maybe attaching to the initial layer and pulling it off the glass?

[bshmerlie]

Maybe the tank was stood up took quickly before the center was fully cured causing the center to shift and run downwards. I would think you could reattach it with silicone.
I agree with the others....you're going to regret not having a drainage layer.

[Voltage]

I didn't clean the glass with anything but water, and it was bone dry. The foam shinking problem has just gotten worse overnight It wen't from only being on the far right side to half of the entire background . Here's some pics to show you what i mean, and plants.
With only one light

Shot at 2011-08-09

With both

Shot at 2011-08-09

Substrate

Shot at 2011-08-09

Shrinkage on far right side

Shot at 2011-08-09

And the awful shrinkage on the back

Shot at 2011-08-09

[DonLisk]

Wow, never saw it shrink like that. Usually its expanding until I seem to have way to much.
Not sure why yours is doing that.

[nos187]

I am currently working on a 40gallon breeder build and have been having the same issue with the foam pulling from thse back.
I let mine cure for 24hrs. I shot additional foam around and behind areas where it pulled away. Hopefully it secures it better.

I have a feeling it has something to do with this heat we have been having.. plus sitting in the garage (basically a hot box).

=./ its sad you already planted though.. i agree with the others that you will regret not having a false bottom. You may end up needing
to replace that soil weekly if not monthly. Im pretty sure hydroballs ship fairly cheap. You may want to consider before putting your frogs
in their new home.

-Kevin

[Voltage]

I am currently working on a 40gallon breeder build and have been having the same issue with the foam pulling from thse back.
I let mine cure for 24hrs. I shot additional foam around and behind areas where it pulled away. Hopefully it secures it better.

I have a feeling it has something to do with this heat we have been having.. plus sitting in the garage (basically a hot box).

=./ its sad you already planted though.. i agree with the others that you will regret not having a false bottom. You may end up needing
to replace that soil weekly if not monthly. Im pretty sure hydroballs ship fairly cheap. You may want to consider before putting your frogs
in their new home.

-Kevin

We have a hydroponics store around here downtown, i'll get some hydroton there. I've seen this happen before and I did a test on a cracked 10 gallon I did as a test. It did the same thing, just much worse. I'll post a pic. The 10g has been sitting outside for a week so the foam is turning orange.

[Voltage]

Hey guys. I just decided to rip the background off, let it shrink outside the tank, and then I hot glued it back on and stuffed extra tree fern fiber into the gaps so nothing can get behind. Also I added 1/4"-1/2" of pea gravel for drainage because I couldn't find any hydroton. Also something I noticed, I had a nice tropical plant in my greenhouse (not sure on name, but it doesn't really matter) but it brought in a white spider with a very large abdomen that's very spherical. I took the plant (I took 3 cuttings, I only took the one with the bug out) so hopefully everything's alright. Also one of my bromeliads is pupping Frogs coming soon guys

[John]

Don't use hot glue in the terrarium if you can avoid it. While it's not very toxic, there is some evidence of it being at least harmful to frogs, and its ability to stick fades in moist conditions. Use aquarium silicone instead. It binds the foam well (particularly if you roughen it a little) and it sticks to tree fern fiber very well.

[Voltage]

I'll try to look for some. I am pretty sure that it doesn't stick very well in moist conditions. If I can't find any aquarium silicone then I'll just either try and leave it is or just use nothing

[robertsonx2]

this same thing just happened to me after i sunk $50 worth of expanding foam into my 65gallon. i ripped it all out thins evening. never going foam route again

[DonLisk]

Wow, not sure whats with this since I never saw the foam shrink before.
I guess we will be finding out this weekend if I'm going to have a similar problem. Have these been exposed to direct sunlight and high temps when drying? Love to know since It might be hot this weekend and I'll be drying it inside if thats the case.