Very sick red eye... :-(

[ben7ani]

Hi all, this article is in relation to my two red eyed tree frogs that i got 2-3weeks ago... both come from the same batch of frogs and a good reptile store...

Week 1:
I bring both juvenile frogs home and place them in the exo terra 30cm x 30cm x45cm high tank. This was the settling in period I didnt pay too much attention to the frogs, I just put the food in and changed the water.

Week 2 & 3:
One of the frogs (FROG 1 - haven’t thought of names yet) is doing well and has grown in size since i brought it home, it has also plumped up with no bones visible at all and is approx 1.5 inches roughly now head to tail .

The other one (FROG 2) remained small, if anything it got smaller and is nearer 1 inch with its bones visible.

End of week 3:
Frog 2, aka the smaller one, I saw at the bottom of the tank barely alive and moving this evening... I decided to take action and intervene... I picked it up... and my first impression was... it's dead... it didn’t even move (eyes remained open but not moving)... legs were just dangerling from the body... it really was a horrible site... its skin looked blotchy... I took it out and put it in a shallow dish of mineral water in a cricket keeper with a few plants... still not moving even after touching it... barely alive... i had to physically place it in the water bowl... I honestly thought it was dead and feared the worst until I came back 30minutes later to have a look at it... I thought to myself... I’ll take it out because it’s died (it hadn’t moved at all)... I went to take it out of the water dish and it opened and closed its mouth... but couldn’t move the rest of its body or anything... so I have left it in the water to hopefully hydrate...

I went back 1 hour later and I’m pretty sure it had died... its still in the water dish and its eyes look half closed ... i feel horrible...


Before this all happened this evening, I went into the reptile store to speak to a friend who works there and I showed him such pictures of my frogs new home that I'd finshed working on.. I've made my own background and it has plenty of real plants e.g. bromeliads etc in there (45cm x 45cm x 60cm high exo terra tank)... I explained the situation about my sick frog and he told me to bring it in and they will look after it for me for a while and if it doesnt make it they will "sort me out" aka. give me a new frog for free i guess. However, I'd rather I kept my current one obviously... but I have a feeling it won't make it through the night...

On a brighter note whilst my poor froggy has almost died this evening... I moved my other frog into the new vivarium and it loves it! He/she is already exploring it ... it's on my desk with me now next to my pc... and everytime I look at it with the red 40W spotlight bulb its in a new position looking healthy and active...

Lessons to be learnt?
Have I done anything wrong with the old tank? It consisted of:

1. Bark chips
2. Fake plant
3. Wooden branch
4. exo terra standard background
5. small exo terra jungle vine
6. water dish
7. feeding bowl for crickets
8. 1x 25W sun glo exo terra bulb
9. 1x heat mat which was attached to a thermastat set to 26°C
10. Night time temperatures of 22°C - 24°C .... Day time temperatures of 25°C - 28.5°C
11. Humidity 60% - 80%

ADDED FOR THE NEW TANK:

1. 40W Red spot light bulb attached to a thermostat on the same side of the vivarium as the heat mat which is very low wattage and permanantly on.
2. Eco earth soil.
3. Bigger nicer wooden branch
4. Custom made background covering the back and one side wall; made from expanding foam, aquarium safe silicone and eco earth - it also has some small branches coming out of it from the back and one piece of wood a bit like a resting platform over looking the water dish on one of the side walls.
5. A bigger water dish (with mineral water bought from Asda £1 for 5 litres)
6. Feeding bowl for the crickets - Im thinking of keeping the crickets in the bowl rather than let them roam as well the bowl feed, this will help me monitor food intake and make sure the crickets dont eat the live plants... is this a good idea?
7. The old heat mat on my smaller tank - this is now on permenantly in the new tank due to it being very small and low wattage, this will not raise the temperatute above 24°C on its own (usual range 20°C - 24°C)... so is therefore suitable to be left on for 24hours. For daytime temperatures the heatmat will still remain on... but the 25W exo terra sun glow bulb will hopefully raise the ambient temperature slightly to 26°C... but if it doesnt... this is where the 40W red spotlight bulb attached to the thermostat comes in... genius ey!?... or not ... (all heat sources are on one side of the vivarium)
8. I have added 1 exo terra 2% UV full spectrum 26W bulb to help stimulate the plant growth etc (these permit basically no heat at all)
9. Night time temperature currently 22.4°C (heat mat has been on for 9 hours) ... Havent been able to see day time temperatures yet... but it should be fine...
10. Humidity - so far at night is reading 95% a bit high i know but will check it in the morning... first night so far so will assess it...

How does the new set up sound in comparison with the old one??

P.s. still cant take my eyes off my other frog exploring the new tank and all over the live plants it looks great :-)

[eloyhouse]

hi sorry about your frog it feels terrible, but glad the other one is doing well, perhaps you can post some pics of your new vivarium so we can give opinions on its new home.

regards

[John]

Humidity is a bit low. That's the only comment I can make. It shouldn't cause problems like this though.

Trying to diagnose a frog remotely is a flawed exercise, and while we try, it is not an exact science. In my opinion the smaller frog was likely sick when you got it. I don't think you can save it now but for future reference you need to get amphibians in its position treated as soon as you have established that they are not eating.

[JWells]

Humidity is a bit low. That's the only comment I can make. It shouldn't cause problems like this though.

Trying to diagnose a frog remotely is a flawed exercise, and while we try, it is not an exact science. In my opinion the smaller frog was likely sick when you got it. I don't think you can save it now but for future reference you need to get amphibians in its position treated as soon as you have established that they are not eating.

Agreed. Also, getting frogs from a reputable breeder sometimes means everything. I've not had many happy experiences with store-bought animals.

Best,

[ben7ani]

What humidity should I be looking at?

[John]

I would aim for 70% minimum, preferably 80%.

[ben7ani]

Ok, will sort it out its been reading between 75-85% since putting them in the live plant tank... and up to 85-90% during the night, so fingers crossed it will remain there.