Too Hot, Not Humid Enough

[TP3D]

Hello all,
To start off, I am all new to dart frog keeping, though I've kept a few other less complicated herps in my lifetime. About a month ago I decided I want to keep a couple and got to building a vivarium. I planned on getting a Dendrobate Leucomelas and if he fared well after a month or so, I would get him a friend. I hear these guys were hardier and able to withstand a wider range of temperature/temps, and living in Chicago (where it gets very hot and very cold) I wanted a frog that wasn't going to die when my apartment got a little above 80 degrees for a few days.

After getting everything setup, I got my leuc and introduced him. He seems happy enough, though he still hides when I lean down to watch him. However, I am concerned about a couple things with my setup.

-The temp is at 80 degrees essentially all the time in the aquarium, I've never seen it get below that (despite having my AC set to low as 65). I am afraid that if this curren heat-wave we are experiencing gets any worse, the temp could go up too high for the frog to withstand.

- Secondly, despite misting 2, sometimes 3 times day, and with an active waterfall, I still can't get my humidity above 60-70%. It could gets as low as 50 when I missed spraying (before I had the frog and was letting the aquarium "run" for a few days beforehand).

These readings have been the same whether the thermo/hydrometer is on top or on the bottom. I have also tested the hydro/thermomete by sticking it by my AC or putting it outside in the sweltering heat, and it does read seemingly accurate.

I really want to cool off my tank, at least 5 or 10 degrees, but at the same time I want to get the humidity higher, at least to 75-80%. Its a paradox! I feel like my tank would be more stable and I'd feel more comfortable leaving my frog for a day or so if I knew the tank could sustain its humidity and not overheat. I work weekdays and am usually gone 7:30 to 7:30, and I sometimes stay at my girlfriends house over the weekend, so I can't be fidgeting with the tank every few hours to keep humid or cooled, it needs to be somewhat self sufficient, at least for a day occasionally.

Here is my setup:

The tank is a 12 x 12 x 18 ZooMed naturalistic aquarium (the one with the door). Is has about 2-2.5 inches of LECA pellets for the bottom layer (with the water line just under 2-2.5 inches), a screen layer, then 2 inches of pure sphagnum moss. I originally build the tank with cocoanut husk but this was clogging up the pump every day, so I opted out of this substrate in favor of pure moss. There is a small pump that feeds water up into a hole on foam rock background, which the water flows down. It is a mild flow, a bite more than a trickle but not a rush of water by any means. It is very moist in there, no sitting water (except below the moss layer), but still very moist. I have one live plant that I bought at a petstore, I don't know what kind it is because it was simply labeled "vivarium plant" at the pet store, thought I don't think this is relevant to my issue. Also irrelavent, there is a little fake decoration for him to hide in/behind. On top of the tank, I have the lid obviously, with the ZooMed naturalistic lighting hood (just one). I had 2 pieces glass cut to fit into inset on the lid on either side of the light hood, on top of the screen, sealed with tape to the lid. I also had some foam stuck on to either side of the glass on top where it brushes against the lighting hood, to cover the little gap where the glass doesn't touch the good. I have a Reptisun 2.0 tropical bulb for the plants/moss. As far as "sealing" the tank goes to prevent moisture escape, I've taped the front vent below the door, and also tried taping all the cracks on the top of the lid (this taping my lid to the tank), but this hasn't made the humidity rise even a degree. I plan on getting some clear cling vinyl to apply over cracks of the door that I can peel off when its time to feed, maybe this will keep in more humidity?

I really want to cool the tank off first and foremost. I read into putting a small fan on top of thank, but that will just expel my already depleted humidity. I don't understand how the humidity and temp isn't more stable... I can barely see into the tank there is so much condensation on the glass from the humidity and heat inside. How can I get the temp in there more like the room temp outside the tank (75 degrees) and tone the condensation, while keeping or adding more humidity to the environment?

If anyone has any tips or tricks, please share! I've done my research and I can't find any clear answers about cooling my tank. I can't be putting ice in there every day or spraying it on my lunch break, its not practical! I'm sure the frog is fine with conditions in there (as I've read luecs are pretty tolerant to even these conditions) but I'd really like to get things in control better before I purchase another frog.

Thanks for your help in advance!

-Tim

P.S. Oh, and hello everyone! This is a great forum, I did a lot of digging around here when I was building my setup. You guys have already been pretty helpful!

[nos187]

Hey there, Ill take a shot at some of this. I also live near chicago and kind of relate lol.

Pictures could really help me paint a better picture and help you out as soon as possible.

As for the temperature being 80 thats okay but extensive time periods above 85 can be deadly. Where is your vivarium located in your apartment? Keep away from direct sunlight. During hot periods do not be afraid to turn the lights off. It can drop the temperature up to 4degrees. Another trick if the vivarium is getting really hot would be to take a 1gallon ziplock bag and fill it full of water and freeze it. If the temp gets up to the high 80s put the ice brick on top (still in bag) and that should cool it down a bit fairly quickly. The most practical thing to do would be to mount your light a few inches up of your tank. I spray painted a few wood blocks and used it as a stand. That should also help with your humidity. Lowering your light level will also decrease your temp and increase humidity.


As for humidity you should not have to be misting so often. What type of gauge are you using? Eventually your eyes will be a better indicator than any gauge. Those cheap 10$ ones from petsmart/petco are garbage. You can set 3 next to each other and they all will read different. I would say if you must... invest in a good digital one. As for telling with your eyes.. good indicators that your humidity is alright would be damp wood/leafs, condensation on glass, and moist ( not soaking) soil. The top of your tank should be covered at least 90% with glass.

Hope this helps some! (i am not an expert and would be gladly stand corrected as i am fairly new too)

Keep shooting away questions.. ill do my best to help.

-Kevin

[DonLisk]

Another thought is to have you raise the lighting up off the top and cover about 90 to 95 percent of the top with your glass or plexi.
Your lighting will burn off humidity as with the cool air from your air con. So, get it more covered to keep in the humidity and get that lighting hood up off the tank.

My hood is about 6 inches off the tank now since it wat in the high 90s here for a while.

[TP3D]

Thanks for the help guys, I actually ran across the elevated lighting solution elsewhere on the internet, and it worked like a charm. And in raising the lighting, I had to get new glass for the top to cover where the light was, so now the top is completely covered and retaining the humidity much better-- so essentially your guys' suggestions were spot on for what I ended up doing!

I think you are right nos187, I need to invest in a digital thermometer/hydrometer. I have a pretty cheap one, but it seemed to be giving accurate readings when I was testing it before I installed it.... but there is just no way it is accurately gauging the humidity in there now when there is so much condensation.

Anyway, my tank seems to be staying in the high 70's during the day and low 70's at night, and the humidty is a stable 70% (according to my probably faulty hydrometer), so I'm feeling much better about leaving the tank alone for a day or two now. I'm posting a pic of how I elevated the light, if anyone else has my issue and is looking for a cheap fix. The glass on the lid is the standard two piece setup, with one side tape sealed to the lid and other other piece taped just to the big piece of glass and able to lift up (for misting):



And here is Nedry my dendro, in all his glory!

[DonLisk]

Great to hear.

I like the digital hydrometers too.
I think if you have condensation on the glass and especially the top glass, you have to be in the upper 80 to lower 90 percent humidity.
Nice solution for raising the hood too.

Don

[ViperJr]

Gotta go with Don and give some cred for the nice light-solution!

[Lacibeth]

I'll third the kudos on the ingenuity w/ the raised light.

[TP3D]

Thanks guys, let's just say that in the course of building this vivarium, I've spent A LOT of time in my local hardware store. You should see the engineering that went into my waterfall! I'll post pics when I have more plants established in the tank.