Gray Treefrog Prolapse

[UncleChester]

I found my female Gray Treefrog, Fatty, with a prolapsed cloaca this morning. It's roughly a 5-6mm diameter veiny reddish sac hanging out her vent, so I'm pretty sure that's what it is. I tried soaking her in diluted sugar water but no luck (1tsp sugar to 6TBSP water for about an hour). She also appears to be extremely thin looking. Like frighteningly bone thin. She was looking her usual fat self just a couple of days ago (last feeding) and seemed fine yesterday morning. I didn't look to close last night so it may have happened last evening. She's now sitting in a quarantine tank with moist paper towels and a water dish (ordinary water). Been on the phone most of the morning trying to find a vet familiar enough with frogs, the closest so far is about 3 hours away. There is a closer exotic vet clinic attached to a university that only deals with vets or existing clients, I'm trying to get my cat vet to contact them for me. In the mean time I'm open to any suggestions specifically on the following:

-How often to repeat the sugar bath?
-I've read about trying to push it back in with a q-tip, but I don't think I can do that, maybe my local vet will be willing to help (she has no amphibian experience though).
-I take it feeding her is a bad idea? She's active and open to eating (she's used to taking food from my fingers, and tried lunging at them a few times).


Also, I'm interested in the probable causes to prevent this from happening to my other frogs, and to reduce the risk of a relapse assuming I can get her sorted out. These are the potential issues I've read about and my own assessment of the risk for her:

-Low humidity- shouldn't be an issue here, viv is loaded with live plants and gets misted twice a day and has a large water dish available.
-Diet- she gets mostly earthworms and dusted crickets, with a mealworm tossed in every couple weeks or so.
-Impaction shouldn't be an issue from the diet, and the viv is filled with plants potted in cocofiber+collected leaf litter/mould from outside and she's generally hand fed in any case.
-Low calcium- shouldn't be a problem, earthworms have the right amount as I understand it and the crickets get dusted.
-Size of food- this is a worry here, the worms she gets are usually a couple of inches long. She scarfs them down no problems, and given their soft bodies I didn't give it much thought but I'm now worried this was a factor. The crickets are small enough (space between the eyes) that they shouldn't be a problem.

Anyhoo, sorry for the long post, just not sure what else to do at this point. Any advice would be welcome. It's looking like I'll be in for a long car ride tomorrow if the frog vet can fit me in.

[tgampper]

Hi Brian:

The sugar treatment should only be done once, after that you or a vet will need to take care of it. I had an opportunity to assist a vet in correcting a prolapse in a turtle. It wasn't that difficult. I would soak the frog in clear, lukewarm water for a few minutes and take a swab dipped in Vaseline and gently reinsert it. If not repaired soon, the condition may prove fatal. Good luck - I know you can do it

[UncleChester]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for your encouragement in the reinserting procedure, I had just returned from the store with some K-Y Jelly for that purpose when I read your message (I had seen K-Y Jelly suggested elsewhere). My cat vet wasn't much help so I went for it. The result-almost all of it is back inside. There is a small ~1 mm deflated looking piece that I couldn't get to stay in. I'll try again in a little bit after my nerves have calmed down some and give the frog a little rest. I sincerely hope I didn't cause more damage than I fixed though, I tried to err on the side of too gentle.

I didn't actually have to hold her down, when I pushed from the right angle she bore down and actually pushed back. I had a moment of fancy where I felt she knew I was helping her out, but I'm sure it must have just felt good. Yes, I bought K-Y jelly to stimulate a frogs rear end.

[UncleChester]

Round 2, it's all the way back in

She pooped during the final bit. To my horror and eternal shame I found what looks to be a piece of perlite in it (Small, hard white volcanic rock stuff you find in potting soil to help prevent compaction of the soil and to increase drainage). I had put a couple of new potted plants in the past few months. I always wash them clean of the potting soil and repot in a safe mix (cocofiber and leaf litter/mould+some playsand if it needs more drainage). I mustn't have been as thorough as I had thought. I have no idea what she was trying to eat though, as I've said she is hand fed worms and crickets are put in a clean small (~1gal) aquarium at the bottom of the tank. Maybe she managed to get a piece on her and sqallowed it while shedding. Doesn't really matter I guess. Everything is getting cleaned again, even though I can't actually see any perlite.

I feel pretty **** now that the cause was almost surely a preventable impaction.

She looks much better now, less of a skeleton but definitely not 100%.
Her quarantine tank is pretty empty, assuming there's no relapse tomorrow, I'll add in a couple of branches.
No food for the next 48 hours? She was eating well and was nice and plump just a couple of days ago, so I could probably go longer.
Start off with small chunks of earthworm and waxworms?

[Rae]

Im so glad it sounds like shes gonna be ok.

[DonLisk]

I would feed only easy passable items like the earthworms.

Good job Brian.... sometimes its harder on the care giver than on the patient.
Hope it goes well and stays. I bet a good soak would help too.

[John]

I'm proud of all of you! Well done Brian and Terry. Fingers crossed for your girl.

[tgampper]

I never thought about using K-Y jelly. I am really happy that everything is going well for your frog

A job well done, Brian. So, where do I send your vet diploma?

[UncleChester]

Thanks everyone! It's been a day and so far so good. She seems alert and content to sit on moist paper towels for the time being. I'm holding off feeding as long as I think I can, the more time it has to heal before she has to defecate again the better.

K-Y jelly is water based instead of petroleum, so seems like a good choice and I'd seen it suggested a few places. I didn't tell the folks at the pharmacy what I was going to use ity for, I figured what I had planned was probably a stranger thing than they could have imagined on their own.

I could absolutely never do this sort of thing on a regular basis. Just thinking about it makes me feel a little ill.

[Kisa]

Well done Brian! I'm so glad you were able to help your Fatty before she got really hurt.

You are SO brave, I have no idea what I would do. And try not feel bad, things like this happen, you did exactly what you were supposed to do when washing those plants. How were you to know a tiny piece was still stuck on? Don't feel bad, you corrected your froggies problem and I'm sure she feels much better for it.

For you Brian.

[UncleChester]

Thanks Brit. I'll always feel pretty awful about this, especially if she doesn't make it. I find myself wanting to check on her constantly and also afraid to go look in case something bad has happened. Everything is still intact as of this morning, she's still very alert and I'm still withholding food.

[Kisa]

Thanks Brit. I'll always feel pretty awful about this, especially if she doesn't make it. I find myself wanting to check on her constantly and also afraid to go look in case something bad has happened. Everything is still intact as of this morning, she's still very alert and I'm still withholding food.

I know exactly how you feel Brian, I experienced the same thing when one of my White's passed away. I kept thinking there was something more I could have done or something less, and I was worried and constantly checking on her would kill her or that not checking on her would kill her...it's always a gamble.

But I think your Fatty is going to be just fine. You did a great job, getting the matter back inside her was the best thing you could have done. Who wants to walk around with their cloaca hanging out right? You've helped her, I know it.

[UncleChester]

An update-I went as long as I thought I could before feeding her and gave her a medium sized earthworm yesterday (cut in half). That made 7 days since the prolapse and 9 days since her last feeding. She managed a small poo today and no problems- a big relief. I'll keep feeding earthworms and slowly up the food intake. The less poo while she is still healing the better.

[Kisa]

So glad she's doing alright so far! Keep up the good work.

[UncleChester]

It's been another 2 weeks so time for another update- so far so good. I've moved her back in to her usual home but she's still on an earthworm diet (when her tankmate gets crickets or other harder to digest items it will be out of the cage for the time being).

The real scary thing is I just got back yesterday from a 10 day vacation. I was pretty concerned she'd have a re-prolapse while I was away but it was happily all good and my first aid kit and detailed instructions weren't needed by her temporary caretaker.

[LilyPad]

You are awesome, I'm glad everything is going well with her!!!

[DonLisk]

Great to hear Brian.