A future frog owner

[schwabem]

Hello!

My name is Emma, I'm mostly (ok, entierly) here because my 5 year old daughter has a long standing love affair with frogs. She picked out her first toy frog when she was 2 years old and it's been going strong ever since.

Last year at Christmas she asked if she could get a "real live frog(!!!!)" for a present. I told her that if she still wanted one, we could get it for her birthday when she turns 6. Since her birthday is in November I was sort of hoping that in the 11 months between Christmas and her birthday she would loose intrest. This has not happened, if anything she's even more excited about getting this frog now than she was at Chrismas time.

In the mean time I've been doing lots of reasearch so we can propperly take care of this frog, here's what I've figured out so far:
We will buy the Exo Terra medium rainforest kit terrerium
One White's Dumpy Tree Frog will live in said terrarium
I'm gonna know more about crickets than a person really needs to
My child is getting a frog instead of a birthday party


I do have one question regarding plants. I was reading a pet-frog care book last night and it had a section about living plants. It said if you get the balance right between plants and frogs you have to clean the tank out less often as the frog waste will be broken down and used by the plants as nutrients. This sounds like a good deal to me since, lets face it, a 6 year old isn't going to be able to maintain the frog habitat by her self. The key, apparently, is to start the plant portion of the terrarium about 6-8 weeks before the frogs are introduced, and to pick plants that can stand up (litterally) to the size of the Whites Frog.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with live plants in their terrarium that they'd be willing to share? What are good plants to use for the Whites Tree Frog? And exactly how soon should I buy the tank and get the plants going before the frog is introduced?

Thank you very much!
Emma

[bshmerlie]

Welcome to the forum Emma. A frog sounds like a fantastic present. I don't know if you're stuck on a Whites Tree frog but I would recommend a couple of fire belly toads instead. Here's why:
1. They are diurnal so they will be awake when your child is awake. Sometimes nocturnal frogs don't wake up until late in the evening.
2. They are very hardy and don't stress as easily as most other frogs.
3. They are very active and will entertain small children. Frogs that don't move all day tend to get boring to small kids.

Just some thoughts.

[Kisa]

Welcome Emma.

First, I do agree with Cheri that a White's may not a be the best start for a younger kid since Tree Frog are nocturnal and they won't be awake and climbing around until nighttime. There are some people that say a tree frog can be "trained" to be awake in the daytime but I (and I hope most other frog owners) see this as cruel and stressful for the animal. We all like to be in our natural sleep cycle.

Seems to me if you were going to go ahead with Fire Bellies instead your daughter would be much happier since she gets to see them active, eating, and swimming/jumping around in the daytime.

But, if you and you're daughter's hearts are set on White's, then here are some tips to make a good vivarium.

First of all, if you're going to use live plants you'll need a drainage layer made of Hydro Balls or LECA (Lightweight expandable clay aggregate). This would go down first on the bottom of your vivarium. Secondly, you'd need some screening to go in between the hydro balls/LECA and the substrate. For White's (and most Tree Frogs), the best substrate to use is one with Coco Fiber as the main ingredient: You can use Zoo Med' Eco Earth or T-Rex Jungle Bed, as if come sin large bags, dry and ready to go or you can buy blocks of Exo Terra's Coco Husk or Plantation soil (which, if you still want to get the rainforest kit, will come inside your Exo Terra vivarium). After that, you can start planting plants and placing in furniture or vines or rocks or sticks or whatever you're going to use.

Just make sure before you put anything in the tank that you've found outside in the "wild", you sterilize it to make sure no foreign bacteria gets into your frog's habitat.

As for plants: Bromeliad is always a WTF owner's first choice, as it has strong, thick leaves that will hold up under the amount of weight your frog will gain when it becomes full grown. Other good choices are pothos or philodendron, and other varieties of broad leafed, strong stemmed plants. Also, Snake Plants are a good choice as they're leaves grow tall, to fill up the vertical space of your vivarium and are very rigid. They usually won't even break under the pressure of a full grown White's. Also, they're basically impossible to kill, even if you don't water it for weeks. Right now I'm doing a 131 gallon build for my White's, and I have several broad leafed plants, a bromeliad, a pothos, a zebra plant, and one other I don't know the name of. Also a large snake plant. You can take a look at the pictures in my album "131 Gallon Viv Build" if you want to take a look at the plants I'm working with.

Also, since White's are tree frogs, you want to try and use as much height as you possibly can, since they like to climb and will not be using the floor of the viv too much. Also, provide a source of fresh clean bottled water daily, but you probably already knew that. XD; One more thing to note is that your frog will be scared at first and will appreciate lots of places to hide from you until he/she/it feels more safe, especially if you get a baby (which I don't recommend since they can be fragile and a little harder to take care of for a first-timer). Getting log hides or making areas of the vivarium that are dark and quiet are good things to dow when introducing a new frog.

As for how soon you should buy the tank, I'd say have it set up at least a month in advance if you're using live plants so it gives them time to establish themselves in your vivarium before your White's goes trampling them. XD

So, that should be all you need to know about building a tank for your White's. This won't apply if you change your mind and decide to get Firebellies, as these frogs are semi aquatic and will need more of an aquatic feel to their tank. I've never built one, but there are lots of members on Frog Forum who have so feel free to ask any questions you have.

You can always PM me for more info regarding White's, or any other members who have them. I'm sure we'd all be willing to help. Same goes for those fire bellies if you change your mind.

[BG]

White tree frogs can be handled for a little time and firebelly frogs are display only i would get one whites and three fire belly frogs because your'e going to love them.

[schwabem]

Welcome to the forum Emma. A frog sounds like a fantastic present. I don't know if you're stuck on a Whites Tree frog but I would recommend a couple of fire belly toads instead. Here's why:
1. They are diurnal so they will be awake when your child is awake. Sometimes nocturnal frogs don't wake up until late in the evening.
2. They are very hardy and don't stress as easily as most other frogs.
3. They are very active and will entertain small children. Frogs that don't move all day tend to get boring to small kids.

Just some thoughts.

Thank you for the recommendation! My biggest worry with getting the fire belly toads is the poison/toxicity situation. At almost 6 years old my frog lover is the oldest of my 3 kids, the middle child is 3 years and the baby is 4 months, having poisonous animals in my house isn't something I feel comfortable with until all the kids are a bit bigger. I know handling frogs and toads isn't something that is a daily occurance but she will, on occasion, want to hold her new pet. From what I've read, and the people I've talked to, the Whites will tolerate being handled better than pretty much any other species.

We talked last night about the fact that she's not going to be able to do much with her frog for at least one month, probably two, after we bring it home. We're working our way through that care book together and learning as we go along.

[Katieasaur]

one of the first rules to teach the kids is to watch their hands immediately after touching any frogs, and I don't want to freak you out or anything, but handling ANY frog and then touching your face can be dangerous, I would definitely have to say that if you do not feel 100% assured that you want to take on the responsibility that waiting until you are would be the best idea

[Kisa]

Thank you for the recommendation! My biggest worry with getting the fire belly toads is the poison/toxicity situation. At almost 6 years old my frog lover is the oldest of my 3 kids, the middle child is 3 years and the baby is 4 months, having poisonous animals in my house isn't something I feel comfortable with until all the kids are a bit bigger. I know handling frogs and toads isn't something that is a daily occurance but she will, on occasion, want to hold her new pet. From what I've read, and the people I've talked to, the Whites will tolerate being handled better than pretty much any other species.

We talked last night about the fact that she's not going to be able to do much with her frog for at least one month, probably two, after we bring it home. We're working our way through that care book together and learning as we go along.

I think it's great that you're helping your daughter learn how to handle and care for these animals. I see lots of people who go into buying a frog thinking it's the same thing as buying a snake, but with less biting. This is SO not the case, as you obviously realize.

The thing about White's is, yes I agree with Martin completely that if you handle your frogs you should only do it if you must, but I also see your dilemma with your child wanting to hold her new pet. I'd say if there is a conflict with it, allow your kid to hold her froggie once or twice a week, at most. This should be safe for everyone as long as her hands are clean and clear of any chemicals (especially hand sanitizing liquid, we had a member on here who accidently poisoned her frog after using hand sanitizer on her hands. Luckily the little guy didn't die, but I can't stress that enough. Only use chemicals AFTER you've handled the frog and never before, also light antibacterial dishwashing soap is ok but you must only use a little and rinse your hands extremely well before touching the frog. They're like sponges.).

This is just my personal experience but I'd like to share it with you. My first White's Tree Frog, Bruce Campbell, was very sick when I bought him. Luckily I nursed him back to health but one thing that lasted was a problem he developed with his eyes. He has permanently damaged eyes from exposure to lamps that were too close to the top of his cage. For this reason, I must feed him outside of the tank because honestly he can barely see, even if the cricket IS moving, it is very hard for him to catch the thing. I have to handle him every three days for short periods of time, and so far there have been no problems. I've even let my little brother stroke his back a little, and I have had no issues.

Not saying you should handle your frog all the time or incessantly, or even that it will make your frog happy, but it will help your kid to feel closer to her pet, I know it's helped me.

Just my two cents.

[schwabem]

I think it's great that you're helping your daughter learn how to handle and care for these animals. I see lots of people who go into buying a frog thinking it's the same thing as buying a snake, but with less biting. This is SO not the case, as you obviously realize.

The thing about White's is, yes I agree with Martin completely that if you handle your frogs you should only do it if you must, but I also see your dilemma with your child wanting to hold her new pet. I'd say if there is a conflict with it, allow your kid to hold her froggie once or twice a week, at most. This should be safe for everyone as long as her hands are clean and clear of any chemicals (especially hand sanitizing liquid, we had a member on here who accidently poisoned her frog after using hand sanitizer on her hands. Luckily the little guy didn't die, but I can't stress that enough. Only use chemicals AFTER you've handled the frog and never before, also light antibacterial dishwashing soap is ok but you must only use a little and rinse your hands extremely well before touching the frog. They're like sponges.).

This is just my personal experience but I'd like to share it with you. My first White's Tree Frog, Bruce Campbell, was very sick when I bought him. Luckily I nursed him back to health but one thing that lasted was a problem he developed with his eyes. He has permanently damaged eyes from exposure to lamps that were too close to the top of his cage. For this reason, I must feed him outside of the tank because honestly he can barely see, even if the cricket IS moving, it is very hard for him to catch the thing. I have to handle him every three days for short periods of time, and so far there have been no problems. I've even let my little brother stroke his back a little, and I have had no issues.

Not saying you should handle your frog all the time or incessantly, or even that it will make your frog happy, but it will help your kid to feel closer to her pet, I know it's helped me.

Just my two cents.

Rinse hands with plain water before holding the frog, no soap or cleansers, afterwords wash thourolghly with soap and water. I went to the local pet shop yesterday and saw they had a tree frog book, after flipping through it I decided that I've probably read about as much as is possible to read (nothing I saw was new info), the next step is to get the frog and do some hands-on learning. We've got a little while yet though. Right now the plan is to buy the tank/plants sometime around the end of September set it up, get the plants going, practice humidity control, then on her birthday in November we'll go get the frog.

[mommyof4froglovers]

My 5 year old has a Whites and she does love him. She got kind of bored at first because I wouldnt let her do much while I was trying to figure out what we were doing. Now she is allowed to help change the water and she is learning how to drop crickets into the tank. I have taught her were the gauges should be and she checks them everyday. Now that she is more active with him she enjoys him. She and my other kids ages 4 and 2 have been taught to wash thier hands in clean water before handling Frogger and afterwards we all wash our hands with soap and water. They are only allowed to touch him on special occasions. Every morning they play find the frog before he goes to bed for the day and at night they look for him before bed. She is already begging for a secound Whites and the first one we got here for her birthday late last year.

If you get lots of help here you should be able to keep your new frog. Read lots of books to her about whites care and have her help you look up stuff online she will enjoy it then.

[ViperJr]

White tree frogs can be handled for a little time and firebelly frogs are display only i would get one whites and three fire belly frogs because your'e going to love them.

I have no opinion in wether the thread maker should get White's or FBT. However, I personally think it's important to understand and press the following subject:
Yes, you can handle them for a short peroid of time, but that does not mean that one should. If anything, it can only hurt the frog. At the best, it does nothing. Therefore, I personally belevie a frog should never be handled unless it is nececary for the frogs wellfare (vet, medical eximation etc.). A frog does not feel affection towards you, even though it is not scared of you. They are not "happy" to get out once in a while like for example a gunie pig.

I hope you and your family will be happy with whatever you decides.

[jjas12475]

pacman frogs are the coolest frog ever!

[Katieasaur]

agreed with Martin

I also agree with Cheri, because even my 60 year old dad complains about the frogs not being awake during the day lol