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[tydis]

Hey guys,
I’m totally new to frogs. I’ve kept a chameleon for a little over two years now and I’ve always been envious of how pretty the Dart terrarium at my local pet store is.

Being new to frogs I decided darts were a bit too complex to start off with, not to mention I live in a fairly arid region so humidity can be an issue.

I’ve settled on White Tree Frogs, the permanent smile they have just draws me in.

Anywho, enough about me I’ve done quite a bit of research and think I am ready to start going to work putting together the vivarium. Before I do I figured I’d post my shopping list up here and see if you guys can recommend anything to me? Have I missed anything, overlooked some things not working well together? Impart your experience on me!

• · Exo Terra 18x18x24
• · Hydroballs
• · ABG Mix
• · Sphagnum Moss
• · Leaf Litter
• · Temperature and Humidity gauges
• · Josh’s frogs 18x18x24 Tree frog plant kit*
• · Lighting System**
• · Various branches; drift wood etc.
• · Water dish

*Josh’s frogs 18x18x24 Tree frog plant kit contains 2 bromeliads, 2 pothos cuttings, and 2 "viving plants"

**Note on the lighting, I’m debating between CFL’s and LED’s. I’m hesitant with the CFL’s because when I first started with my chameleon they were deemed very dangerous for chameleons. I’m guessing this isn’t the case with frogs or that the CFL’s are made differently now.
Also with the lighting, due to my job I’m usually awake and at home from 1-5am so I’m wanting to get some sort of ‘Night Light’ that lets me see the frogs but doesn’t disturb their natural day & night cycle. Any recommendations?


Anyways, sorry for the long post and thanks in advance,
-Tydis

[Kisa]

Hello there and welcome to the forum!

White's were a good choice. I have three of them myself, and my first was also my very first frog as well and I haven't regretted it yet!

Your list looks good as far as I can tell. Just a quick note, in an 18x18x24 viv you can really only fit two White's comfortably since they tend to get quite large, up to 6 inches in some cases! O: So if you want to get more than two I would suggest upgrading to a bit larger of a tank. But you were right to go tall, White's are tree frogs after all. They love to climb.

For the substrate you're going to want to use something with coco fiber as the primary ingredient (not sure what ABG Mix is exactly, so if you've covered this I apologize, just want to make sure I cover you. ). For this, Eco Earth, T-Rex Jungle Bed, Exo Terra's Jungle Bed, etc.

As for the sphagnum moss, it's alright to use, but in moderation. White's can be quite aggressive eaters and it is possible for them to ingest the moss and become impacted. What a lot of people seem to do is put a layer of moss over the coco fiber substrate and then cover that with some leaf litter. This way the moss is safety out of harms way for the frogs and it won't stick to them as they walk around. Well...mostly.

As for the night light: You can use Exo Terra's moon glo lights. They work very well to let you be able to see your frogs at night and will usually not disturb their cycle. They're a very dim purple light, and look very nice in a planted vivarium.

I hope this has helped you! If you have any more questions please feel free to ask!

[tydis]

Yeah I plan on only having one frog at first, make sure I am used to the upkeep and then maybe add a second later. If I want anymore than two it will be long enough in the future that getting them another tank wont be an issue.

ABG mix is 2 parts tree fern fiber, 1 part peat moss, 2 parts cocofiber, 1 part charcoal, and 2 parts orchid bark.
Though a quick google shows there are tons of variations of it out there, I suppose I can contact Josh's Frogs and see what the mix they sell is exactly.

I see forum member Rocko is using the ABG mix from Josh's Frogs in this build: http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...ium-build.html . Does this only work because they are using live moss to cover it or would the Sphagnum Moss, Leaf Litter combination work in the same general way?

When it comes to planting the plants should I plant them directly into the substrate or make little pots out of cork and plant them in those?

I've seen both methods mentioned.


Thank you for the quick reply and the recommendation of the Moon Glo Lights by Exo Terra, I will be sure to check those out.

[DonLisk]

I use the sphagnum under the top substrate for moisture retention. Definitely not on top since I've had a Whites swallow a huge piece and it wasn't fun retrieving it after it knotted in the stomach.

Don't forget the screen material for on top of the hydroballs.

I like to plant everything in the top substrate except the bromeliads since the base will eventully rot. I put that in a cork round or into the background.

As for my top substrate I like anything the frogs can digest since your Whites will commonly miss the target when diving for crickets.

I also use a red 15 watt bulb for viewing at night and the frogs usually spend the night hanging around under it.

Nice choice for some nighttime viewing :-)


Don

[tydis]

Great tip on the bromeliads. Thanks Don!

Most of these red and blue light bulbs seem pretty cheap, maybe I'll buy a few of each and decide which I like more.


I think I've decided to scrap the Sphagnum Moss idea and go with a small layer of cocofiber over the ABG mix, with a bunch of leaf litter on top of that for aesthetic reasons.

Does that sound like a good idea?

[Kisa]

Great tip on the bromeliads. Thanks Don!

Most of these red and blue light bulbs seem pretty cheap, maybe I'll buy a few of each and decide which I like more.


I think I've decided to scrap the Sphagnum Moss idea and go with a small layer of cocofiber over the ABG mix, with a bunch of leaf litter on top of that for aesthetic reasons.

Does that sound like a good idea?

Alright, that sounds good to me. The leaf litter will keep the dirt from sticking to your frogs, which is good since it can commonly irritate their skin. I see mine kicking it off all the time.

[tydis]

Around what wattage of CFL bulbs would be required to light this setup well?
I'm looking at getting a 25 Watt Indoor Sunshine ® Full Spectrum Multi-Phosphor CFL Bulb

Those with experience with these bulbs will two of these be too bright for a 18x18x24?

[DonLisk]

Two will be good for this. I actually use one 24 watt CFL above the bromeliads and then just the red night light in my 18x18x24 but I think with the plants yours doings, I would go for two.

Don

[mommyof4froglovers]

I am not great with frogs but I have a whites and soon to get another. I didnt notice if you said you were buying these, but you also need a themometer (digital is best) and a hydrometer. I wish I could find a digital one of those.

For the past 6 months I have had my Whites, he seems pretty easy. Good luck.

[Lacibeth]

I am not great with frogs but I have a whites and soon to get another. I didnt notice if you said you were buying these, but you also need a themometer (digital is best) and a hydrometer. I wish I could find a digital one of those.

For the past 6 months I have had my Whites, he seems pretty easy. Good luck.

Check Lowe's or Home Depot--a hort friend of mine said they carried some and I was in there Sunday and sure enough they have digital thermo/hygrometers.

[mommyof4froglovers]

Thanks I will do that.

[tydis]

Hey guys,

I've gotten some decent work on my background. I'm wanting to use silicone to attach the cocofiber to the background. I understand the soil needs to be 100% dry in order for the silicone to bond.

My soil has been sitting out in a thin layer under a fan for about 8 hours now and still isn't anywhere near dry.

Anyone have tips to speed this process up?

[tydis]

Got my lights from Todd over at lightyourreptiles.com yesterday. I decided to go with a 25 Watt Indoor Sunshine and a 14 Watt Day LED. These things are BRIGHT! The plants will love them. It's hard to tell just how bright they are in that picture but they light up my room. The color of the light looks just like sun shining through the windows. These things are awesome. Now I'm just waiting on the ABG mix and the plants from Josh's Frogs. Once I get the substrate all set up and have the plants in hand I should be able to better visualize how I want to set-up my drift wood.

[tydis]

Got my plants in the mail today. I was really worried that they would be entirely dried up when I got home from work considering the temperature got up to 106 today! Luckily the people over at Josh's Frogs are amazing. Everything was still very moist when I opened the package earlier today. I took a couple quick pics I'll share with you guys. They are pretty bad so when I get some more time I'll be sure and take better ones. I Ordered the Exo Terra 18x18x24 Tree Frog Plant Kit. It comes with two Pothos cuttings, two Brom's and two "Vining plants." First thing in the package greeting me was a big bag of Creeping Jew cuttings. They all look super healthy with tons of leaves. The cuttings range anywhere from half and inch to three inches. There is around 15 cuttings. Second thing I found was the bag filled with two Pothos cuttings. These two look great! Awesome color in the leaves, each cutting is about 6 inches long. Third thing was the Friendship Pilea. They took special care to remove almost all the dirt from the root system the plant has growing, and tightly wrapped the roots in moist paper towel. I'm super excited for this plant to start growing and getting the vibrant foliage they are famous for! Last thing I unwrapped was the two Bromeliads. They were tightly wrapped in semi moist newspaper. They are in great shape! I'm not sure what type they are. I put all my various house plants around my cage, and my biggest Brom inside it, they all get great light around it. I will probably keep them around the cage even when everything is all set up and the eventual frog is living inside. It makes the stand really pop in my room and I can use the lights on either side of the cage to create a sort of sunset effect by turning them off one at a time in 45 minute intervals or something along those lines. I should be getting my ABG mix and leaf litter from Josh's Frogs on Wednesday, then I can really get this thing going.

[scro]

sweet