(Cope's Grey Tree Frogs) Decent Setup?

[Zathura]

I just stumbled across this forum and wanted to see what some veterans think of my setup. Other than a firebelly toad several years ago, this is my first attempt at keeping amphibians for the long term, though I'm a veteran myself of insects and herps (mostly snakes).

So, here's the scoop. I went out on a creature hunt after a massive rainstorm yesterday, and lo and behold, dozens and dozens of frogs littered the road and sidewalk. I ended up capturing 7 of them before I decided enough was enough. Last night they stayed in a temporary 2 1/2 gallon tank, but never fear, they have been fixed up nicely now. (I think)

Here's what they're in:

20 gallon tall aquarium with a screen lid. The lid has been loosely wrapped in Saran Wrap, with a couple dozen holes poked in it to try and retain the humidity in an air-conditioned apartment.

Substrate is about 1 1/2 inches of Sphagnum moss, covered with a layer of (I think living) Sheet moss, purchased at my local garden center. Both have been misted thoroughly, and are damp to the touch.

There is a small, shallow (enough for them to submerge, but not much more) plastic dish filled with water in the center of the enclosure. I also acquired some thickish branches from the woods, cleaned and scraped them (made sure there were no ants, termites, etc.) and wound them with faux Ivy. They are propped up to give the frogs something to climb on (besides the walls of the aquarium, of course). They also have a daytime hide, which I purchased, and seems to be something akin to concrete, shaped and colored like old driftwood.

My apartment stays around 75 degrees Farenheit, which according to what I've read so far, is well within their tolerance, so I've neglected to get them any sort of basking light or under-tank heater. (The thermostat stays the same, I don't play with it, even at night)

As for food, I have a family-owned petstore where I can reliably get 75-100 small/medium crickets for about $5 a pop, and I already have a container of calcium supplement to dust them with.

So...Is this a suitable home for them? Are there too many frogs for a 20 gal.? Anything else I should do?

I just want to make sure they're comfortable, and that I'm taking satisfactory care of them.

[LilyPad]

I love gray tree frogs, good find! 7 is definitely way too much for 20 gallons though. I have 4 of them in a 35 gallon tank. They aren't "social" frogs, so they want their space. Also, it would be best if you had something taller rather than wider, they don't like to be on the ground at all. None of mine ever touch the ground except for occasionally during hunting. Mine also like to bask, so I have a 50 watt blue daylight bulb on the top, and they find the branches close to it and perch themselves up there.

The sheet moss is okay, only if they cant get to the sphagnum moss. They are aggressive eaters and a mouthful of that could cause impaction. I do have a little in the background of my tank, but nothing they can get off.

Live plants is definitely an addition that should be made when you can. My frogs love to sit on anything with broad flat leaves and they just help with the general health of your vivarium. Make sure you clean the water daily, they like to use it as a bathroom.

Also, make sure you read the care article - Frog Forum - Gray Tree Frog Care

Most questions you have regarding habitat will be in there!

[Zathura]

Thank you kindly for your response. I am in fact still reading the link you provided (though I've gone through most of it), and have learned a bit more than before, even though it includes a lot of information on breeding them, which I do not intend to do.

I am, however, pleased that this is regarded as a "beginner" species, lol. I remember my first try at housing an Iguana....not fun.

Now...I am not dismissing anything you say, but instead offering up something for debate:

You say that 7 frogs is too many for a 20 gal. Tall. I have read that the rule of thumb for these frogs is 3 gallons per frog...which should mean that I am only 1 gallon shy. (divided by 7 is not much difference). I also am not prepared to include live plants. I have tried that many times over the years, and seem to always end up with either mold or dead plants...not to mention the cost of grow-lights (which can run up to $20 for a single bulb) or timers.

I also have read that once one of these frogs has been taken into captivity, they should not be released back into the wild. What is my time-frame on this?

I hope no offense is taken, I simply want to state my preferences (and financial abilities) and get some input on them?

Also...I'm still a little unsure about the tank-lid situation. Do you think what I described above is adequate? I still have not found a decisive answer on exactly what percent humidity is tolerated by these frogs. I have a digital hygrometer waiting to be inserted into the tank if need be, but first I need to know what is acceptable.

(Edit) I forgot to mention, that I have indeed affixed black "construction" paper around the outside of three of the four sides of the aquarium. Will this promote my frogs to color themselves dark brown/black? If I use green instead will they choose green? What role does temperature and humidity have to play with their color schemes? I would prefer that they be mostly green for visibility purposes, though I would never intend to cause them stress in order to achieve this.

[Zathura]

Heh...I just discovered an issue; While the frogs themselves can't get to the sphagnum moss....the crickets sure can. Within 30 seconds of depositing their first feeding, I lost track of almost every cricket that entered the enclosure, as they immediately found the gaps between the sheet moss and crawled underneath. I foresee a cleaning nightmare. Also, the frogs are huddled up near the top of the terrarium. Will they find the crickets? I know the insects are constantly on the move. Hopefully the frogs will smell them or something and come down to eat. Any advice?

[LilyPad]

No matter what you've read, 20 gallons is FAR too small for 7 tree frogs. Ideally, you should have 10 gallons per frog when dealing with gray tree frogs.

I know they say that background color makes a difference, but of my four frogs all housed in the same tank, one remains a constant bright green, another varies between green and gray/white, the other 2are gray to almost black sometimes .

The humidity stays 70 to 75% temperature between 60 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit. I use a 50 watt daylight bulb for my live plants and it is working wonderfully, it's really not that difficult
You seem to be doing research, you'd be able to find good plants for a vivarium.

[LilyPad]

Also...they are great hunters, you can put an orange slice in there to feed the crickets so they come out, the frogs should hunt them down. They usually Hunt at night.

[Zathura]

Perhaps you are right then. I shall treat these frogs to a good meal, then let 2 or 3 go near the stream by my place.

I'll think about adding live plants, though I'm still apprehensive. I seem to have a black thumb with anything other than CP's, which oddly enough, I can keep alive and thriving.

It just seems odd to me to have such a large enclosure for only three or four frogs, I couldn't imagine the cost of setting up a 35 gal.+ for only three.

I was lucky in that PetCo had a short-lived sale on their aquariums; $1 per gallon, so my 20gal. only cost $20, as opposed to its usual $40.

(Edit) Maybe tomorrow I'll dig out my little camera and take a pic of the cage. I'm fairly happy with it the way it is...and since I made my last post, the frogs have nabbed a couple crickets, so I know they're eating.

[UncleChester]

It just seems odd to me to have such a large enclosure for only three or four frogs, I couldn't imagine the cost of setting up a 35 gal.+ for only three. .

Tanks are cheap. Craigslist, kijiji, garage sales, wherever. They don't need to hold water either (except up to a few inches if you have a drainage layer, or live plants you water), so you can get some cheapo bargains in old, used aquarium land from people hesitant to trust a leaky 35 gallon with a full load of water after a home repair job. Think of it this way- would you rather live in a 400sq ft bachelor apartment that you aren't allowed to leave, or an 1800 sq ft loft? Especially when you are stuck in it with some smelly guy who always tries to sit on the part of the sofa with your butt groves worn in it? The more space the merrier, especially in the upwards direction for treefrogs.

Ventilation is more important than humidity in my opinion, and I'd do without the saran wrap. They are native to your area, just keep it in the range of your outdoor summers and you're cool. You can keep the humidity in the tank up by misting a couple times a day (more if needed).

Live plants also do wonders for humidity. Fill the tank with Pothos if you have trouble with live plants. It's near invincible. A ~$2-3 13watt CFL bulb sitting on the top of the tank in an ~$6 work or desk light will be enough for the plants in the size of tank you have. No need to spend $20 on a bulb. You don't need a timer (though it makes it easier), just turn it on in the morning and off at night.

And do read the stuff on how they are bred (that entire care article is fantastic)- the more you know about the life cycle of your pet the better you can understand how to care for it.

Finally... good luck

[Zathura]

Thanks for all the replies. I did remove the Saran wrap from the screen lid and inserted the Hygrometer to see what's up. Surprisingly, the humidity is up to about 78 when the AC is not running, and drops down to about 72-75 when it's on. I haven't needed to mist yet today, so if I can keep those levels with a once a day misting, that would be nice, lol. It may get more difficult once more of the moss dries out though, I'll have to wait and see. I'll probably also move the hygrometer around a bit, try placing it a little higher in the tank to see if there are any drastic changes closer to the lid.