Feeder frogs?

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

I won't use Xenopus, then. Can I breed green treefrogs? They have them regularly in stock at my local pet store.

[Iratus ranunculus]

I won't use Xenopus, then. Can I breed green treefrogs? They have them regularly in stock at my local pet store.

No one has ever succeeded. They are in stock due to massive commercial collection.

[Tony]

Breeding green tree frogs is very possible, just not commercially viable. It will be a lot cheaper and easier to use WC.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

What does it mean if it's commercially viable?

[Tony]

What does it mean if it's commercially viable?

Green tree frogs typically wholesale for $1 or less as WC, the price of breeding and raising them is so much more that a breeder would not be able to compete financially. Same thing with firebelly toads and a few other cheap species, if it retails for under $10 chances are it will never be CB, or only rarely by a hobbyist who does it for fun and doesn't mind losing money.

[pac]

I feed 4 wild caught toads to my female pac at different times but i had them for about two months so yea just quartine them a lit bit of parsites wont your frog yea if people feed wild caught cornutas there natural foods then try rodents then you may be succesful in raising cornutas or you can buy bullfrog tadpoles raise them up feed them to your frogor breed your own bullfrogs

[Iratus ranunculus]

I feed 4 wild caught toads to my female pac at different times but i had them for about two months so yea just quartine them a lit bit of parsites wont your frog yea if people feed wild caught cornutas there natural foods then try rodents then you may be succesful in raising cornutas or you can buy bullfrog tadpoles raise them up feed them to your frogor breed your own bullfrogs

Yes... sample size of one.

[Iratus ranunculus]

Breeding green tree frogs is very possible, just not commercially viable. It will be a lot cheaper and easier to use WC.

And we will just ignore the massive parasite problems.

Who has done it?

[Tony]

And we will just ignore the massive parasite problems.

Are you dense or just trolling? What part of "quarantine and treat just like any other WC" is so hard for you to grasp? Or are you just a PETA kid who doesn't want to feed frogs to frogs because they're cute, and pretend that feeding a specialized frog eater rodents is humane?

[Iratus ranunculus]

Are you dense or just trolling? What part of "quarantine and treat just like any other WC" is so hard for you to grasp? Or are you just a PETA kid who doesn't want to feed frogs to frogs because they're cute, and pretend that feeding a specialized frog eater rodents is humane?

Neither. Good loaded question though.

I am an amphibian ecologist who has been keeping frogs since I was five. Just because you quarantine an animal does not mean it is parasite free. In fact, medicating wont kill them all, neither will freezing. This is because parasites subjected to stresses encyst, wrapping themselves in a defensive cocoon and shutting down most of their metabolism until it is safe to emerge. Medicating frogs works because it brings the population down, giving the immune system a chance to do its thing in a case where the frog has become symptomatic due to conditions causing immuno-suppression. This is a problem with even otherwise healthy captive frogs like wild-caught budgets frogs, because of increased cortisol levels as a result of simply being contained.

Wild caught green tree frogs will be loaded with parasites, and even if you load them with medication (most of which requires a vet script) you will still give your frogs parasites with every feeding. Worse, these will be parasites the budgett's frog's immune system has no evolutionary history with, or native exposure, but which themselves are really good at parasitizing frogs..

You should not feed them rodents either, for a variety of reasons. Cockroaches, yes, rodents no. But dont listen to me. Instead, people should listen to the person who didn't know that xenopus secrets some nasty skin toxins.

Also: considering my research is on predation ON frogs and tadpoles accusing me of the whole PETA thing is... yeah... shove it.

Green tree frogs typically wholesale for $1 or less as WC, the price of breeding and raising them is so much more that a breeder would not be able to compete financially. Same thing with firebelly toads and a few other cheap species, if it retails for under $10 chances are it will never be CB, or only rarely by a hobbyist who does it for fun and doesn't mind losing money.

Which of course justifies population-destabilizing and horrendously cruel commercial collection and importation. Yes. We should all support that, because everyone else is doing it, and there is no possible way that we could exert pressure within the market to encourage captive breeding.

[Teh Frog Whisperer]

Dang! That's pretty impressive! So basically, what you're saying is that I absolutely should not try using "feeder" frogs? If not, is there anything I could use? If I'm not mistaken, Budgett frogs are specialized frog eaters, aren't they?

[Tony]

I am an amphibian ecologist who has been keeping frogs since I was five.

Self proclaimed expert? Check. Citing expertise beginning at an absurd age? Check. Care to share what degree you hold, where you earned it, and who is employing you?

Just because you quarantine an animal does not mean it is parasite free. blah blah blah

Nothing is parasite free, whether WC or CB, an "ecologist" should be aware of that. Do you feed crickets? Guess what, they typically carry pinworms. Parasites cannot be eliminated, only managed.

But dont listen to me. Instead, people should listen to the person who didn't know that xenopus secrets some nasty skin toxins.

I stated that I do not know whether or not Xenopus are suitable. Admitting the limitations of one's knowledge is nothing to be ashamed of, and it's pretty sad that I of all people have to lecture someone on humility.

Which of course justifies population-destabilizing and horrendously cruel commercial collection and importation. Yes. We should all support that, because everyone else is doing it, and there is no possible way that we could exert pressure within the market to encourage captive breeding.

Lead the charge, let's see how long you can afford to dump money into the pit of breeding $5 frogs. You may or may not be an ecologist, but you sure as hell didn't study economics if you think you can pull that off.

[pyxieBob]

Tony did you read this? i like this, he is exactly correct abt parasites going dormant but not GONE. It dosnt take someone who is afraid of little cute frogs being eaten to see its perfectly logical to not feed them frogs. Parasites reviel them selves when the host shows any sort of stress. IE, this is why puppies and kittens are always ALWAYS born with worms, and the mothers need to be treated for worms also. The worms are dormant in the moms muscle tissue always... they are called spores. The stress of pregnancy is more than enough to bring these spores to "life" and infest the host. Yes these frogs ARE FROG EATERS in the wild, however they are also riddled with parasites thus making their life span shorter than (in general) than captive animals w controled feeding and medication. They eat frogs as a partner in keeping the ecosystem eco. They dont eat frogs to be the dominent species or to not get parasites. I think that breeding frogs to feed could be dangerous. Budgetts would do well on earth worms and captive bred guppies, (not goldfish).

Neither. Good loaded question though.

I am an amphibian ecologist who has been keeping frogs since I was five. Just because you quarantine an animal does not mean it is parasite free. In fact, medicating wont kill them all, neither will freezing. This is because parasites subjected to stresses encyst, wrapping themselves in a defensive cocoon and shutting down most of their metabolism until it is safe to emerge. Medicating frogs works because it brings the population down, giving the immune system a chance to do its thing in a case where the frog has become symptomatic due to conditions causing immuno-suppression. This is a problem with even otherwise healthy captive frogs like wild-caught budgets frogs, because of increased cortisol levels as a result of simply being contained.

Wild caught green tree frogs will be loaded with parasites, and even if you load them with medication (most of which requires a vet script) you will still give your frogs parasites with every feeding. Worse, these will be parasites the budgett's frog's immune system has no evolutionary history with, or native exposure, but which themselves are really good at parasitizing frogs..

You should not feed them rodents either, for a variety of reasons. Cockroaches, yes, rodents no. But dont listen to me. Instead, people should listen to the person who didn't know that xenopus secrets some nasty skin toxins.

Also: considering my research is on predation ON frogs and tadpoles accusing me of the whole PETA thing is... yeah... shove it.



Which of course justifies population-destabilizing and horrendously cruel commercial collection and importation. Yes. We should all support that, because everyone else is doing it, and there is no possible way that we could exert pressure within the market to encourage captive breeding.

[Froog]

I would listen to Iratus Ranunculas! Just saying!