Dart frog vivarium

[camfish]

Where would you buy plants for a dart frog vivarium? like bromeliads or something and is eco earth an ok substrate for dart frogs?

[John]

Please read this article. You live in Florida so you live in the same state as a ton of tropical plant vendors, such as Michaels' Bromeliads and Tropiflora.

[camfish]

would aquarium gravel with sphagnum moss on top be an ok substrate? and can i use plexi glass for a top with a screen lid over it?

[LilyPad]

I would at least put a screen in between the gravel and moss. Live plants would be awesome for your darts though and I would definitely look into the places John listed for you. Plus the link he put up tells you .exactly. what you need for your dart frog viv.

[MikeM670]

would aquarium gravel with sphagnum moss on top be an ok substrate? and can i use plexi glass for a top with a screen lid over it?

Yes you can use gravel as a substrate material. Its no different then using expanded clay balls for this. Just that it will be heavier and make it harder for you to move the vivarium to another location if needed. Always cover the gravel/clay balls with a filter material to keep the planting medium from falling down into the spaces between the pieces.

As for plexiglass I don't think there is any issue with that other then a possible yellowing over time due to the UV from the lights.

[Tony]

As for plexiglass I don't think there is any issue with that other then a possible yellowing over time due to the UV from the lights.

It warps when exposed to heat and humidity. Plexi tops are frog jerky waiting to happen.

[guppygal]

Do you have a poison dart frog in mind? Most folks build vivariums according to their frogs' needs.

I would not recommend aquarium gravel for drainage. If the frog accidentally ingests it, it may not be able to pass it. There are several methods of creating a drainage layer. Hydroton clay balls can be used, tho I've never used them. You can also build a 'false bottom' using the plastic eggcrate you usually see covering office lights atop 2"-3" pieces of pvc pipe. Cover that with screen, then you can add your substrate mix. A false bottom like this allows for a water feature, which can be pretty cool. If you use the clay balls, I believe that you should cover it with screen as well, before adding the substrate. Many hobbyists use ABG mix and I think there is a thread describing the mixture and how it can be duplicated. Mostly, it's orchid bark, some charcoal pieces, and sphagnum moss - very light and drains freely.

As for plants, you can order them online or purchase them locally. Lowe's is a great source of vivarium-sized plants. Just remember to remove them from their original container and wash thoroughly in a solution of water and 5% to 10% bleach. This will kill all the nasties. Make sure you rinse thoroughly, and then rinse again, and then again. Pdfs aren't cheap and you don't want to kill them right off the bat.

Make sure you do a lot of research before investing in your frogs and please do not mix the different species or morphs. Hybrids are worthless, and it's very likely that stress alone will kill a frog. It's also a very addicting hobby - trust me. I'm sure others here will attest to that.

If you have any questions, please ask, and we'll be happy to help you out.

kristi

[MikeM670]

It warps when exposed to heat and humidity. Plexi tops are frog jerky waiting to happen.

I stand corrected on this then!

[MikeM670]

Do you have a poison dart frog in mind? Most folks build vivariums according to their frogs' needs.

I would not recommend aquarium gravel for drainage. If the frog accidentally ingests it, it may not be able to pass it. There are several methods of creating a drainage layer. Hydroton clay balls can be used, tho I've never used them. You can also build a 'false bottom' using the plastic eggcrate you usually see covering office lights atop 2"-3" pieces of pvc pipe. Cover that with screen, then you can add your substrate mix. A false bottom like this allows for a water feature, which can be pretty cool. If you use the clay balls, I believe that you should cover it with screen as well, before adding the substrate. Many hobbyists use ABG mix and I think there is a thread describing the mixture and how it can be duplicated. Mostly, it's orchid bark, some charcoal pieces, and sphagnum moss - very light and drains freely.

As for plants, you can order them online or purchase them locally. Lowe's is a great source of vivarium-sized plants. Just remember to remove them from their original container and wash thoroughly in a solution of water and 5% to 10% bleach. This will kill all the nasties. Make sure you rinse thoroughly, and then rinse again, and then again. Pdfs aren't cheap and you don't want to kill them right off the bat.

Make sure you do a lot of research before investing in your frogs and please do not mix the different species or morphs. Hybrids are worthless, and it's very likely that stress alone will kill a frog. It's also a very addicting hobby - trust me. I'm sure others here will attest to that.

If you have any questions, please ask, and we'll be happy to help you out.

kristi

I only use aquarium gravel in my tanks to hide the front portion of the egg crate. This is then covered with a filter mesh. The frogs should not be able to get to it. I never use it for the whole drainage layer as its just way too heavy. You do bring up a good point about accidental swallowing of small pieces of gravel.

[guppygal]

Sounds like a good plan!

Have you decided on your frogs yet?

[camfish]

I'm thinking for my first dart frogs i might get dendrobates auratus, are they good for starting with dart frogs? i still have to figure out how i'm going to setup the tank and where i'm going to find a glass top.

[Grrrit]

Petsmart carries glass tops. And they are pretty affordable. With proper husbandry I would imagine they would be a good choice. But there are alot of morphs/locales to choose from. Some may be more hardy, and some may be more skittish. Someone working with them and breeding them could help you choose a good auratus for you.

[guppygal]

I'm thinking for my first dart frogs i might get dendrobates auratus, are they good for starting with dart frogs? i still have to figure out how i'm going to setup the tank and where i'm going to find a glass top.

Auratus are a great starter frog. I raise blue/bronze auratus and their patterns change until they're mostly bronze with bright blue outlining at about 2yrs of age. Depending on the size of tank you're using, you could comfortably keep a small group of auratus. I posted some pix from my blue/bronze baby tank if you're curious.

I get my glass from a local glass company. I tried getting it cheap from Home Depot or Lowe's, but it's so thin, it breaks easily and the edges aren't buffed. I paid less than $15 for 1/4" glass with buffed edges from the glass company down the street from where I live. I used the glass for a 29g vertical; the glass for the 20g vertical was a little cheaper.

[bshmerlie]

I get most of my plants from Lowes, but if you are completly unfamilar with plants check out places like Joshs Frogs. That way you'll know you're getting plants that will not overgrow your tank quickly. Some plants will simply grow too tall for a vivarium. Just make sure before you purchase them. Do some research and you can get plants locally.

[camfish]

Do I really need a drainage layer for my first dart frog vivarium? It's probably just going to be a 10 gallon. Can i just do eco earth with sphagnum moss on top with leaf litter on top of that? Or do I have to have a drainage layer?

[Grrrit]

Its pretty necessary if you don't want a swamp. It will soak your tank buddy, its not very difficult but helps a whole lot.

[guppygal]

Frogs aren't overly fond of wet feet, and neither are plants. So, yeah, you do need a drainage layer. You might want to take advantage of Petco's $1 per gal sale going on now and pick up a larger tank. Most darts like a bit of room to roam.

kristi

[MikeM670]

You really need the drainage layer for the excess water to drain into. This keeps the substrate from becoming water logged. That will hasten the breakdown of the substrate but also could lead to a smelly tank.

SO you need.


Surface Material ( Something like ABG Mix)
Substrate ( Coco Fiber)
Mesh/Filter Material ( This keeps the substrate out of the drainage layer)
Drainage layer ( Expanded clay balls, large gravel, egg crate)

[camfish]

Ok thank you guys so much for the help, so would it be good if i put gravel thats pretty decent sized so they can't swallow it then a weed guard over that then eco earth sphagnum moss then leaf litter, or would it be a better bet to order the ABG mix?

[guppygal]

I've found a couple of recipes for ABG mix, in case you want to try to duplicate it:

2 parts Ground Tree Fern Root
2 parts milled Sphagnum Moss
2 part fine orchid bark
(i cannot emphasize *fine* enough here, it's hard to find)
1 part sphagnum peat moss
1 part charcoal

Will you be planting your vivarium?