Finally had some success with my B. terrestris

[SethD]

They spent two nights in a rain chamber and then laid eggs in this bin I moved them into while I was at work today. I am tickled because the father is a interesting specimen and North american toads are quite difficult to breed. Hopefully the eggs and tads will do well.

[Kurt]

That's awesome. Good luck.

[John]

Congratulations Seth. This is a very nice achievement. Did you time the rain chamber period with local weather at all?

[SethD]

Congratulations Seth. This is a very nice achievement. Did you time the rain chamber period with local weather at all?

Today and yesterday we had scattered showers so yes. As much of a pain as it has been to get these guys to breed I have been trying to stack as many cards in my favor as possible. The male has never been a problem, just keep him real dry for three or four months followed by the rain chamber and it was easy to get amplexus. The issue was getting females to develop and lay eggs naturally without hormone injections. While there may well be a certain amount of luck involved, It feels like a real achievement to get eggs after two years of trying different things and fiddling around with such a hard to breed species. Finally that xanthic male I have can have some offspring assuming some eggs, tad's, and toadlets survive.

[SethD]

Progression...

[lnaminneci]

Great pictures of the new baby frogs! They look very healthy. I hope they are doing well.

The father is beautiful, love his coloring!

[John]

Wow that was quick. Very well done to you, sir. What are you going to do with the froglets?

I was just thinking about your breeding efforts the other day when I saw dartsami selling captive bred stelzneri over on dendroboard, then reading his thread. Those guys owe you a lot of credit.

[Kurt]

Big time congratulations! I can't tell from the picture, but do any of the toadlets possess the father's coloration?

[Rat The Unloved]

Absolute best of luck to you!

Incidentally, I've seen a few wild toads here in Oklahoma with a surprisingly pale coloration that resemble your "daddy". Given that they were all around the same pond I'm sure the ones I saw were all related.

[Greg M]

How are the albino Woodhouse's toads doing? I have been thinking about getting some, but was nervous because of the reported difficulties in raising them. I have no problem with regular Woodhouse's toads (amen on the vitamin A comment), but I was still nervous about the possibility of genetic issues...

[SethD]

How are the albino Woodhouse's toads doing? I have been thinking about getting some, but was nervous because of the reported difficulties in raising them. I have no problem with regular Woodhouse's toads (amen on the vitamin A comment), but I was still nervous about the possibility of genetic issues...

Well I originally picked up ten for 30$ each. Within the first two weeks I lost one, but it was the smallest one by far and didn't appear to be growing much so no great surprise there. It was just dead one morning with no other symptoms. About two weeks after that I lost another one. This one had symptoms similar to the problems others have described in the past. It got bloated, stopped eating, and died after about 4 days. I am pretty sure vitamin A was not the issue with that one since all the toadlets were receiving what should have been a sufficient amount. Not exactly sure of the cause. The other eight are still doing fine and so far have showed no signs of problems. The three largest have grown to around an inch and three quarters while the others range from around an inch and a quarter to an inch and a half. So far I consider my results inconclusive. I will not make up my mind until the remainder of the toads reach adulthood if they indeed do survive to adulthood. At the moment I am inclined to think they are somewhat more delicate and prone to problems than normals(not a uncommon issue with albinos) but that they should be workable. They are probably a bit inbred too and there is a decent chance hardiness could be improved with outcrossing.

Here is a current pic of a couple of the albinos, they are a bit dull, dirty, and nasty looking because they were dug up for the pic. Right after a shed though they are really pretty.



And here is a pic of a couple of the southern toad "toadlets" in this thread that are now well on their way to adulthood. For scale those are large superworms in the pic, the larger "toadlets" are around three inches long. Males have nupital pads and have been calling, but I probably won't try to breed them till next spring.

[Jace]

Those toadlets are looking great...though I would hate to be a superworm in their presence!! I have never seen an albino toad before, but they are definitely interesting looking. Thanks for keeping us posted and I wish you all the best with all of them.

[wesleybrouwer]

Indeed great work on those toads

I would be carefull tough with outbreeding you're albino's.
Outbreeding from a line of incest can turn out to be even more dissasteress then keeping up the inbred.
You're suspision could be right i think, since you need two frogs with the same genetical disorder, albinism, it would be a great chance they are from one and the same bloodline.

My tought about it is they are not right genetically and therefore i don't see the use of breeding a weaker version of an animal.
Most morphs are created by inbred, causing genetical failures and keep inbreeding as long as possible to keep that mutant available for pet trade.
But well, that's just the way i see it
I just like the animals more the way they are the healthiest and nature like.
Breeding weaker versions and crossbreeding is not my cup of tea,
but everyone got it's own look at it ofcourse.
As long as it is clear what is what, everyone can make it's own decisions

Some studies on fish showed the consequences of outbreeding an inbred bloodline, i don't suspect amphibians to be a lot different.
If you don't know of any articles concerning inbred/outbred i can check if i still got the pdf on my hard drive and send it to you.
I think it would be a shame if the attempts will be all for nothing in the end.

Anyways,
keep up the good work

[Mordecai]

Wow! I just saw this post. I'm so happy for your breeding success! Great pictures too. Look forward to seeing more!

[Greg M]

Hmm… I have been thinking my way through the genetics here...

I would be interested in seeing the article on fish breeding with respect to outcrossing highly inbred lines. In the lab, we regularly outcross mutants derived through mutagenesis to remove background mutations and normalize the genetic background (as much as possible) relative to the wildtype. Of course, we can usually follow the mutation of interest (by PCR, for example) through the outcrossing process, and simply rely on diluting any deleterious alleles through repeated outcrosses. I guess an argument against outcrossing is that it can simply conceal a deleterious recessive mutation by making it heterozygous, in which case it may reappear in subsequent generations. In addition, if the deleterious allele is tightly linked to the desired trait, it may be difficult or impossible to separate the two. If there is no other way to sustain the line (and it is a matter of personal opinion whether it would be worthwhile to do so), then outcrossing may be the only option (and it may not work). Personally, I think the albino Woodhouse’s toads look fabulous and I would love to see them preserved and improved through careful breeding.