Curious about a species of climbing toad...

[EZweasel]

Well Wesley, if you were to sell some how much would you be willing to let one go including shipping. I really do like what you have done with your toads and am very impressed as well.

[Tony]

Well Wesley, if you were to sell some how much would you be willing to let one go including shipping. I really do like what you have done with your toads and am very impressed as well.

Importing frogs from Europe would likely cost at least a grand, probably more, just in permit and shipping costs. You would be much better off grabbing a group the next time they come in from Malaysia.

[SethD]

As has been said they are sporadically available in small numbers as WC individuals in the states at fairly high prices of between 60-100$ each. I have one pair but have not tried to breed them. They have been sporadically bred over here in the states too but when it was done there was virtually no demand even at the reasonable price of 30-35$ for well started individuals. Saw cheap CB juveniles sit with the same wholesalers for months a few years ago. If your patient and keep a close eye on what is being imported for a year or two you can probably find some WC adults, otherwise your likely out of luck. Care is very similar to a lot of large tropical tree frogs except they are more active during daylight hours than your average tree frog. They are also unusual for a toad in that breeding does not require much careful cycling from what I understand. It seems they can breed with just good feeding and some time in a rain chamber. I know my male goes girl crazy every so often with no environmental changes at all.

[jkooiman]

.[/QUOTE] Saw cheap CB juveniles sit with the same wholesalers for months a few years ago.[/QUOTE]

@ Seth When was this, I don't remember that?

Next to Atelopus these are my dream species. Hands down.

Thanks Wesley Brouwer for the great info!

They are notoriously difficult from all I've read. Steve Busch in Oregon, USA, bred them though. The metamorphs were typically tiny, as is customary for Bufonids. I have no idea what happened to his metamorphs, I'm wondering if these are the ones Seth is referring to?

Whatever the case, I believe most of these SE asian imports have a reputation for arriving in bad condition, across the board, regardless of genus. And then there's Chytrid...

Whatever the case, I would keep these ventilated above all else. Species that have skin that deflects water seem to be built for water conservation. Most SE asian Rhacophorids also are built for are very well-ventilated setup.

I read that this species avidly accepts carpenter ants, indicating that they may pursue an ant-eating lifestyle, not a good omen for hobbiests. It would seem though, that with heavy supplementations, such a dietary hurdle could be surmounted, As is seen in the modern dart hobby. I have never seen, nor owned one, very cool though, an admirable endeavor, whatever the case. Thanks, JVK

[SethD]

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Saw cheap CB juveniles sit with the same wholesalers for months a few years ago.[/QUOTE]

@ Seth When was this, I don't remember that?[/QUOTE]

Circa 2005 to 2007 or so.

Next to Atelopus these are my dream species. Hands down.

They are notoriously difficult from all I've read.

I haven't found mine to be that hard. I bought two pairs at the same time because just because the price was as low as most wanted for one pair. One pair died within the first month, the other pair is still going strong about two years later.

Steve Busch in Oregon, USA, bred them though. The metamorphs were typically tiny, as is customary for Bufonids. I have no idea what happened to his metamorphs, I'm wondering if these are the ones Seth is referring to?

Yes, he bred them several times. "Reptile depot" had some spawn for them and did not sell the offspring for quite a long time either. Sandy Mascarino also bred them some in the mid 90's and wrote a "reptiles" magazine article about breeding them if I recall. I believe several europeans have bred them at various times too though I don't know who specifically.

Whatever the case, I would keep these ventilated above all else. Species that have skin that deflects water seem to be built for water conservation. Most SE asian Rhacophorids also are built for are very well-ventilated setup.

Mine have virtually zero ventilation and have been doing fine in a twenty gallon vertical for right at two years. Of course I don't over water either but I think getting healthy individuals to begin with is the biggest issue.

I read that this species avidly accepts carpenter ants, indicating that they may pursue an ant-eating lifestyle, not a good omen for hobbiests.

Mine readily feed on half grown crickets, small roaches, moths, smaller sized june bugs, and so forth. They will take some mealworms too but seem to prefer faster moving prey. They will not take food items as large as many other toads of similar size will take but as long as then food items are lively and not to big they are not picky.

[wesleybrouwer]

I also use a main diet of small crickets, besides that, they prefer other small prey over larger ones.
Here they are used to be eating crickets as a main food source, wich i gutload and supplement, waxworms, small grasshoppers etc.

I do keep them well ventilated and rather dry in times.
When i do so, they hide theirselfs in the branches and go out in the evening/night to burry theirselfs in the soil.
This i do keep somewhat moist, so they can still regulate their water levels.
In some of the hollow cork branches i put in some moist moss as well.

After the dry period, i give them a wetter period in wich i let the water feature in front rise.
I noticed they are quit adapted to swimming as well.

I make usage of UV lights, and i do see them taking advantage of this,
they often go and sit in the rays for a while, after wich they will retreat in their cork bark again.

For the easyness of keeping them, i must say, getting them healthy after import can be difficult.
Maybe it depends on the exporter and importer what shape you'll get them in.
After they are asteblished, i must agree, they aren't that easy to stress anymore.
The only thing is they often scratch their noses against something.

No offence, but i think the viv of 20 gal is quit small for these frogs.
Especially since they are easily around 3-3,5 inch each.
If i am right, a 20 gallon tank high is 24" x 12" x 16".
I used to quarantaine them in a 52 gallon viv i believe, altough i am not used to measure in gallons.
The viv was 90x50x50 cm (35x20x20 inch) and it went ok.
But now i put them in their final terrarium, i notice a huge difference in behavior.
I think these toads need to be properly housed since they tend to move lots around the space they have available.
I now house them (7) in a 150x65x130cm (60x26x51 inch) or 335 gallon tank.

About the breeding of reptile depot i did not know.
The breeding attempt as written in Reptiles, i do know off, i also mailed with the author, but i got the same reply i got from the zoo in Europe that bred them.
Difficult to raise the tads to toadlets, and high mortality with the toadlets as well.
I to experienced this mortality rate to be extremely high, i think the critical stage lies around 6-9 months.
After that period i didn't loose any more of them.
I'll try to mail with Steve Busch then to see what things he did different,
maybe i can see what makes it easy for him to raise a large amount and keep them in large amount strong and going from clutch to adults.

I was already planning to try again, since i cycled them again and 3 of the females are getting gravid again.

Like you said, the males will go girl crazy a lot, that is true, but having them in amplex isn't the difficult part.
Just like all toads, getting the eggs is the tricky part
In my experience they do need the cycle to get gravid, i use a dry/hot period followed by a colder/wet period in wich i heavily feed, that seems to be working best for me.
I don't see and hear much from them when it is dry and warm (30-32 degrees C)
but as soon as it is getting wetter the males will start chasing the girls.
Can it be that the little ventilation is a trigger in you're case? Cooling down at night, getting the humidity up ?

[SethD]

I
No offence, but i think the viv of 20 gal is quit small for these frogs.
Especially since they are easily around 3-3,5 inch each.
If i am right, a 20 gallon tank high is 24" x 12" x 16".
I used to quarantaine them in a 52 gallon viv i believe, altough i am not used to measure in gallons.

It is actually a 20 gallon long set up as a vertical and I would not argue that it is on the small side. Size would be 30" x 12" x 12" in inches. I used it because it was what I had available when I first got them. I had planned to increase the size later after they were established but they seemed to do quite well as is and space is tight so I never bothered. If I was going recommend a tank to set up from scratch for a pair a 40 gal breeder tank set up as a vertical with lots of branches would be just about right in my opinion.

In my experience they do need the cycle to get gravid, i use a dry/hot period followed by a colder/wet period in wich i heavily feed, that seems to be working best for me.
I don't see and hear much from them when it is dry and warm (30-32 degrees C)
but as soon as it is getting wetter the males will start chasing the girls.
Can it be that the little ventilation is a trigger in you're case? Cooling down at night, getting the humidity up ?

Could be, never bred them myself and was just going by what I had heard. As far as what triggers my male sometimes, I don't think that is it as sometimes he goes after the female during the day and sometimes at night and the humidity is always pretty high(false bottom tank) though not so high as to fog up the glass.. Like you say though males are not usually that hard to get interested with most toad species and the issue is usually getting the females to lay eggs.

[jkooiman]

[/QUOTE]
Yes, he bred them several times. "Reptile depot" had some spawn for them and did not sell the offspring for quite a long time either. Sandy Mascarino also bred them some in the mid 90's and wrote a "reptiles" magazine article about breeding them if I recall. I believe several europeans have bred them at various times too though I don't know who specifically.
.[/QUOTE]

I had forgotten about Mascarino Seth, I think I remember something about Steve helping Sandy out a bunch with that, or swapping breeders or something.I didn't realize Steve bred them more than once.

Funny the toadlets didn't sell for awhile, you would think some of them might still be circulating around though, being captive bred, and I would assume hardy and long-lived. Of course males are pretty drab, and quite a few females pics' I've seen, I can only imagine how small, brown, and generic the toadlets would be to sell.

A Long Term Captive pair was offered somewhere in Las Vegas last year, I should have jumped on them sooner. Their prices are usually horrendous though, rightly so if they are acclimated I would guess.

@ Wesley, that is very interesting information about the tapeworms. All of the information you've shared has been awesome.

I'm interested in the tadpole/metamorph failure. This species breeds in slow moving jungle streams from what I understand. But that could mean anything, I've noticed that hobbyists can uncover the craziest minute specializations in species. JVK

[SethD]

Funny the toadlets didn't sell for awhile, you would think some of them might still be circulating around though, being captive bred, and I would assume hardy and long-lived.

I bought a group of six CB toadlets from reptile depot at the time for 30$ each. They ate well, grew a lot and seemed to do ok for a while but as they started to approach adulthood they all died off one by one over a space of two months or so. They were housed in a 75 gallon with about a half screen top so lots of ventilation in that particular case. Never did figure out why they died as there was no obvious reason, they would just be dead one morning. Could have been anything, something lacking in the diet, some disease, who knows.