General frog care sheet/FAQ?

[maneeta]

using gravel, using untreated tap water

I read that very often and I have few questions concerning that and maybe I can ask them here:

- gravel: since there's different sized gravel, would you say "no gravel/small stones at all" or do you think 1 inche sized stones and larger are okay (for white's)? I can hardly imagine a frog would swallow such a "large" stone accidentally (although I know they have large mouths) whereas I totally agree that it could happen with small gravel, especially if it's so small that it can stick to the frog. what would you say?

- about the water-thing: since I read this and that about it... is it possible that it just depends on the tap water quality* if you have to treat it, or do you think it's necessary in general? (*is your tap water of drinking water quality? would you use (non-sparkling, of course) untreated drinking water for your frogs? do they put chlorine or similar into your tap water?)

[Tom Highum]

Yes most tap water has chlorine and cloramines so treating tap water should be necessary. Also just a note dont use distilled water because it doesn't contain essential minerals.

[Kurt]

Large gravel or stones are ok as long as they are not small enough to be swallowed. I can't see how that can be a comfortable substrate though.

My old boss at the MoS used to say, if you can't smell the chlorine, then you don't need to treat for it. I have also observed bullfrogs and green frogs hanging out in my pool even though there is chlorine in it. The green frogs were even calling. So if the chlorine levels are low enough it shouldn't be a problem. One should, however, err on the side of caution and treat tap water for chlorine/chlorimine.

[Tom Highum]

I think we should first make a list of what to do then someone else can compile it into a care sheet thing.

[into]

Large gravel or stones are ok as long as they are not small enough to be swallowed. I can't see how that can be a comfortable substrate though.

I use large stones, but my frogs are never at the bottom of the tank unless they are in their bowl. I had moss, but my White's (Dumper) didn't like to sit on it for some reason he prefered to climb around it... so I took it out.

[maneeta]

Large gravel or stones are ok as long as they are not small enough to be swallowed. I can't see how that can be a comfortable substrate though.

I see... I just don't know how large can be swallowed..? (I mean they fit pinkies into their mouth...) well, actually I have no idea what a frog considers being comfortable, why do you think it is not? mine are sleeping one at the window, one on a plant leaf and one on the ground, but in the back between the plants, where I only want to have that kind of stuff they sell for reptiles and amphibians (similar to potting soil), no pebbles anyway. during night they climb around on their wood, plants and stuff, so they do also only touch the ground to take a bath - and to get dirty all over.

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@ into: How large are your stones?

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@ Kurt & Tom Highum: I live in switzerland and I've never heard they put chlorine in our tap water... Google told me it's not allowed to put in more than 0.1 milligram chloride per liter (think it's about 0.00001 ounces per gallon(?)). Do you think that's too much? Does your tap water smell like chlorine and if so, do you usually drink it?

Please don't think I'm an irresponsible "mom", i just started browsing english forums and here they write about chlorine everywhere and I was like . on german pages they usually just mention calcium carbonate (which I do "remove") and now I wonder: is it because of different water qualities or because of different opinions (since there are also HUGE differences concerning the recommended tank size)?

@all: thanks for your opinions/help!

[Kurt]

well, actually I have no idea what a frog considers being comfortable, why do you think it is not?

Have you ever laid down on a pile of rocks? I imagine that would be very much like that for a frog with a substrate of large gravel/small stones.

Chlorine is used here in the US to sterilze drinking water. I have no idea what they do in Europe to do this.

Like I said earlier, if you can't smell chlorine in the tap water there is no real need to treat it for chlorine. That being said I still treat it, just to be on the safe side.

[Tom Highum]

Except i think it could be kinda comfy if they can fit they entire body on a single rock and if the rock was kinda smooth.

[maneeta]

I hope you don't think I'm speaking of that edged pebbles..? >.< because if so I do more than agree with you.

I mean the round ones: http://www.aquastein.de/resources/Fl...+schwarz+I.jpg

actually those seem comfy (well, say " comfy ") to me, since they are like palm stones. of course, I wouldn't like to lie on a pile of those, but I wouldn't like to live in a tank sticking to glass either... or do you think frogs don't like them as well? (hope not to sound sarcastic, I really mean it.)

[Kurt]

Treefrogs don't appear to be bothered by adhearing to the glass sides of their enclosure. My red-eyes would rather sleep on the glass than the fake plant in their enclosure.

[John]

Like I said earlier, if you can't smell chlorine in the tap water there is no real need to treat it for chlorine. That being said I still treat it, just to be on the safe side.

That is a very dangerous thing to say. While terrestrial frogs will tolerate chlorinated tap water in spray guns, etc, aquatic frogs don't like it (it can kill them) and it kills tadpoles outright.

Chlorine, and also Ammonia in many countries, are added to water to kill bacteria and other nasties as a way to maintain water cleanliness after it leaves the treatment works. Chlorine combines with Ammonia to form Chloramines. These are more persistent than simple chlorine (a gas which will dissipate over time). It takes a long time for Chloramines to dissipate.

So always treat your tap water with dechlorinator - it will also remove chloramines and usually various heavy metals too.

[Kurt]

That is a very dangerous thing to say. While terrestrial frogs will tolerate chlorinated tap water in spray guns, etc, aquatic frogs don't like it (it can kill them) and it kills tadpoles outright.

Thats what I thought when the curator first said it. However, I have seen aquatic frogs such as bullfrogs and green frog living in my swimming pool which does have chlorine in it. Chlorine levels are kept low and the frogs don't seem to be bothered by it. There have been times when I have neglected to use a dechlorinator in my own collection without any ill effects.

So am I avocating the use straight tap water without any dechlorinator? Not at all! I do use it and I use it regularly. All I am saying is it is possible to get away with it with some species, but it probably isn't a good idea to do so. Why take a chance? Thats all.

[into]

@ into: How large are your stones?

the smallest size are larger than their mouths, most are the same size as the frogs. There are some even larger ones that they like to sit on.... They seem to like sitting on the large stones, and sometimes will rest their heads on them. These stones are placed on ledges I built half way up the tank where they spend most of their time. My white's have been taking turns sitting on the largest one.... I think it's a prime spot for them because if one is on it, the other is pacing back and forth on the glass. I think I need two large stones for them.

So to add to the comfort discussion, if the stones are large, they like them more than the soft areas of the tank.

[maneeta]

did a "little" tap water research, here it is about 50-50 spring/soilwater didn't get all of it... but they use physical (membrane)filters, ozone and uv to clean it. just fyi cause don't want you to think I'm poisoning my frogs.

@into: I see, that's a useful explanation, thank you! You always just read that there should be no pebbles that can be swallowed accidentally but nothing about the size... If they seem to like it, that's even more great,if they have the possibility to avoid it and they still sit on it, it's likely they do not find it uncomfy. I mean they prefer smooth surfaces - leaves, glass - so I can imagine they prefer stones to soil..? (that's how I came up with the idea.) May I ask where you got these large pebbles from? Bought them or collected them from outside? Or are your frogs still very small/what size do their mouths have? (Seems I'll have to measure that.) And do you have the whole ground covered up or just a few spots? Aaand how do you clean them? Only water? Bleach? Xcuse me for asking that much in detail but seems you are my only source.

@ Kurt: It was you who started the "would you find it comfortable to..?"-thing, I've just carried it further

@Marilyn: Was your first one a comment for me?

[Kurt]

@ Kurt: It was you who started the "would you find it comfortable to..?"-thing, I've just carried it further

No problem.