Keeping multiple dart frog species in a large vivarium

[Kurt]

Well, the dart frog community will likely chew me out for saying this, but if you insist of multiple types of darts, how about tincs of various colors and markings. At least this way they will be all the same species and you will have variety. There are blues (azureus), Oyapoks, citronellas, powder blues, cobalts, reginas, and so on.

Why the dart frog community frowns upon this is because they do not want any "mutts" mudding up the gene pool. They, like myself are purists. We don't like hybrids and the like. We like things the way nature created them.

Now if I were setting up that tank I would either house blues or Oyapoks in it.

[sepgundamrg]

I read on one dart site after making that post that it was ok to keep different genus of darts together since they cant inter breed, as long as they have the same housing requirements. Whats the boards opinion on this information? by genus I mean d.xxxxx and p.xxxxx

[Kurt]

Dendrobates and Phyllobates. Not sure what web site you speak of. In theory, there would be no cross contaminations because captive bred dart frogs are suposedly non toxic. Not sure I 100% buy that. One thing to consider is the fact that a lot of dart frogs are terratorial and thaty could present problems.

Like I said, if it were I that was putting this tank together, I would stick to one species.

[sepgundamrg]

Amphibiancare.com >> Mixing and Keeping Different Species of Reptiles and Amphibians Together

Certain species of poison dart frogs (Dendrobatids) have been kept together successfully by some hobbyists. Avoid any species that could potentially produce hybrids, instead sticking to dart frogs from different genera such as Dendrobates azureus with Phyllobates bicolor.

[Kurt]

Well, that is Devin Edmonds site, so I will support his opinion. He has been working with amphibians longer than me and has published two books, that I know of.

[JeffX]

From my brief interest and study of Dart Frogs it's always been frowned upon. Doesn't mean it can't be done especially that size of tank. However I wouldn't do it though.

[tylototriton]

If you wanna mix, and I understand the temptation, how about sticking with species that naturally occur together. Something like Costa Rican species (Dendrobates auratus, Phyllobates lugubris, Oophaga pumilio) not only will they not interbreed, but they are basically from the same habitat.

Alex

[sepgundamrg]

If you wanna mix, and I understand the temptation, how about sticking with species that naturally occur together. Something like Costa Rican species (Dendrobates auratus, Phyllobates lugubris, Oophaga pumilio) not only will they not interbreed, but they are basically from the same habitat.

Alex

Thats what I'm wanting to do, they will have the same care requirements and they would have many more colors then just 1 species. As for the species I get, I would only get 1 morph of each.

[james67]

Well, the dart frog community will likely chew me out for saying this, but if you insist of multiple types of darts, how about tincs of various colors and markings. At least this way they will be all the same species and you will have variety. There are blues (azureus), Oyapoks, citronellas, powder blues, cobalts, reginas, and so on.

Why the dart frog community frowns upon this is because they do not want any "mutts" mudding up the gene pool. They, like myself are purists. We don't like hybrids and the like. We like things the way nature created them.

Now if I were setting up that tank I would either house blues or Oyapoks in it.

hello all, i see that this is a pretty old thread, but it seems that more could be said on the topic, and since im bored why not let this be my intro to this site (some of you may know me from DB).

as far as mixed enclosures go, your right kurt, they are highly frowned upon, and generally as one researches more, they come to the same conclusion. however the logic in the statement you made may be based on some misinformation. IF a mixed enclosure in absolutely necessary it is HIGHLY recommended (and for good reason) that different morphs of the same species NOT be used. the problem lies in the frogs ability to interbreed (same species/ different morph). this is the real concern. many morhps are nearly identical and creating hybrids can occur even if the keeper is trying to prevent it. it wouldn't be the first time that someone realized "hey i used to have 5 frogs, now i have 7". at this point the hybrids could potentially blend in with the parents, etc. and that's when breeding is attempted to be suppressed, and all known offspring are culled.

auratus, leucomelas and tinctorius WILL interbreed as well. they are related closely enough to "do the deed"

moral is... IF you have to mix PLEASE dont mix morphs. this is the most dangerous type of mixing, not to mention that as another member stated, tincs (in this case) will battle and it often results in the loss of an animal from stress and starvation.

james

[Rukufox]

Okay I see this is an old thread but I have another point to be brought up.
I understand the importance of keeping a bloodline pure, but where would the world be if species never cross breed? There wouldn't be half the species there are to day. Now don't get me wrong, I'm still conserned for the species of each individual frog's needs and such. My point is that whether in nature or captivity two frogs from slightly varying subspecies are prone to cross breed eventually. I don't think she should intentionally try to breed "mutts" but it's not a bad thing if it did happen by chance.

[IrishRonin]

ok so im not saying one way or another on a mixed incloser because i have mixed feeling about that both ways but what I do have to say is if nature has taught us anything-Anything close enough to breed, will breed. On the other hand humans have distroyed enough things on this planet lets not intetionally do more harm.

[SNAKE]

You can keep two sepecies togother, ONLY IF the tank is very well planted, good in size, and if the two species are different.
So a cohabitation is possible with tinctorius azureus for example (wich will occupate the "low" part of the tank) and a represantant of the Ranitomeya genus (wich will occupate the "high" part of the tank). You see, in this case, there is no possible risk of breedint amoung the two different species.
Note that your tank is not VERY big. It's the average size tank for more than a trio.

[mmattys30]

Can't you just keep all males or am I missing something here.??? As

[Rukufox]

Can't you just keep all males or am I missing something here.??? As

The main consern of the debate is the cross breeding, but different species have different levels of agression too. Like with fish, it wouldn't be smart to put a whole bunch of males together just because they have a different fin type, they would still tear eachother apart. It would be very important to make sure you don't cross two highly aggressive species together, or even frogs from two completely different habitates at risk of them poisoning eachother with their natural toxins.

[flybyferns]

I'm thinking, those interested, and who are following this thread and these current posts .... need to read post #8
Alex has taken the responsible approach (and response) to mixing if inclined to do so.

[deranged chipmunk]

oh, i definitely agree. and i have seen it done very well by some hobbyists, mostly european. i've also seen darts with anoles and geckos and such. i still wouldn't do it, but it has and can be done. in fact i remember reading a newsletter by LLL Reptile, i believe where they briefly mention housing Leucs and certain species of ranitomeya. but they mostly warn away from it.

[Geo]

While I have no experience mixing dart frog species I have done mixed setups before. My longest running habitat here has oriental fire belly toads, chinese fire belly newts, and american green tree frogs. The Toads and Newts come from very similar biomes / regions so I didn't think there should be any issues. The Green Tree Frogs were a last minute pet shop rescue in which I had nowhere to put them so decided to see what would happen if I added them. I kept an eye on them all for a week and there has never been an issue a year later.

The tree frogs hang out in the top of the habitat in the plants and branches while the toads remain water / land based and the newts the same depending on time of the year. From observation it is clear to me that they are all aware of each other but none of them have ever had any conflicts. I have a lot of branches creating different climbing levels should they want to hang out by themselves for awhile, plants adding foliage for hiding spots, two different land masses and so on. To be honest the tree frogs are only seen at feeding time and many times I have seen the newts sleeping on top of the toads so no problems.

I generally wouldn't recommend mixing unless you are willing to spend a certain amount of time in the beginning to watch for any problems. You would need to be diligent for a few weeks until they relax a bit and their natural tendencies start to show. That is when things may get interesting.

[DartEd]

I'm a purist when it comes to this issue. Totally putting aside crossbreeding, the aggression and stress that can be attributed to certain species of darts is enough to scare me into keeping different species apart. We have to keep in mind that we are all in this hobby because we love the species we choose to keep and want to see the species advance and proliferate. I don't think I'm out of line to assume that no one in this thread wants to see an animal suffer. My opinion is , why take the chance?