Need Some Help, possibly sick White's :(

[Leefrogs]

Ummm, you've had these guys 2&1/2 or 3 weeks. I don't think humidity is the problem. But maybe the paper towels. Paper products should be unbleached, as I've heard of fish getting a diease from using cotton in a biologic filter. I think people use the paper to make sure additions are eating(pooping) and to easier gather fecal samples. The dust that comes off white paper towels is much greater than what comes off of brown ones. I've also read red leg looking irritation can come from cardboard or paper towel.

Just my guess.

Try posting a picture of the temporary home

[Kisa]

Thanks for the reply Ginger. I have had all three of my baby White's on the same paper towels since I picked up the new ones and have seen no irritation or signs of illness in the other two. Bruce Wayne has been on white paper towels since I got him in February an hew has had no problems, except for a brief stint where he wouldn't eat, but that was adjustment.

I have had the heightened humidity for a day now and have seen no change, though I know it's early. I saw him/her exhibiting the exact same symptoms, trying to kick off some invisible irritant on his/her belly, and is completely ignoring the crickets I put in with him/her. S/he sat around on the ground for quite a while this afternoon, but s/he is now sleeping on the glass in one corner. I don't want to disturb him/her knowing it could cause more unneeded stress, but I am getting quite worried at this point.

If anyone has experience these same symptoms any information would be greatly appreciated. Or anything anyone thinks I should try...

I don't know if I mentioned, but s/he has lost some weight, though that's not my biggest concern. But it will be if s/he looses any more weight...

Thanks guys.

[clownonfire]

I'm following this thread simply to know how this turns out. I'm sure your White's will be just fine, Kisa. You are a great carer.

Eric

[DonLisk]

Hey Kisa, is he/she still having trouble shedding?

The raised humidity should help and something has to be drying the skin out just enough to not let it peel off. I the frog is spending much time on the paper towels, the paper towels could be pulling mositure away from the frog.

If your paper towels are kept damp, it may help with reducing the chance of the above issue (if thats what happening).

Not sure what else might help you and hopefully the condition corrects itself so Bruce sheds normal again.

[bshmerlie]

Kisa and I have texted about this problem and the fact that she found him buried in the moss tells me the humidity was possibly too low. My suggestion was to induce a rainy season for a few days and see if that perks her up. I fake heavy rains on my tree frogs every so often just to keep them on their toes. When she first got Paul he was sleeping deep at the base of the plant so it may have kept him at a little higher humidity so that maybe why he's acting normal. I agree with Ginger about maybe its time to ditch the paper towels. Soil and more plants would allow them to move from wetter to drier areas in the tank as they see fit.

[artes]

I'm going to second the opinion of switching to dirt. It is possible that the orange white's tree frogs need a slightly higher humidity than regular white's, so switching to dirt might help. I would also add a real plant or two to help with humidity - mine have a ficus tree. Froggie spends all his time sitting under it, and Chance hangs off the window below the vine. Froggie loves his ficus, so I'm betting your slightly dry one would love having a plant to sit under.

[Kisa]

Hey guys, thanks so much for all your replies they're really helpful. I am 100% sure now that the skin is the problem with little Willie (my nickname to avoid confusion with my other White's). I found him/her this morning looking a very dark orange color, again this is not normal from the day time. S/he hasn't retreated to the plant again and instead decided to stay out in the open for a little while, to my surprise. S/he is still completely uninterested in food, and must be so uncomfortable, I see him/her sitting and climbing awkwardly because of the skin not coming off.

But anyway, this morning I was worried because s/he was sitting awful strangely, so I reached in and gave him/her a quick examination. I figure helping remove the skin until things get back to normal is all I can do right now, and I found a HUGE string of it hanging from his/her arm and going into his/her mouth. S/he was sleeping when I found him/her, so I'm sure I didn't interrupt a successful shed. Anyway, I only noticed s/he had been trying to eat it when I attempted to remove it from him/her...I pulled it off and proceeded to check for anymore loose pieces. I found one on his/her tummy, but s/he wouldn't stay on his/her back long enough for me to get to it. I tried dropping her in her water dish, as that and the spray bottle both have de-chlorinator in it (as it has vitamin E and aloe to help with shedding) and I hoped it might help him/her to sit in the water for a bit, but s/he jumped right out...

Anyway, I grabbed some pictures of the little guy/gal this morning, I don't see anything physically wrong with him/her besides the incomplete sheds. Eyes look clear and everything...maybe you guys can see something I'm not?




Thanks again for all your replies...I guess all I can do is wait and see if continued high humidity helps.

And @ Artes: I do have two live potted plants in with both of the frogs in the tank. Paul and Bruce Willis both liked to sleep on the plant leaves until now. If you compare the picture of Bruce Willis in my avatar or other pictures in my album to the ones I've just posted, you can see a difference in weight and coloration...But they do have plants to hide and sleep in, just no dirt as of yet.

Here are some pictures of the enclosure.

This one is of the whole tank, you can see the piece of paper I keep there to make them feel safer. I just removed two of them, I had three in total. As you can see I covered half of the tank with a cut up plastic bag to help keep humidity in. I had to tape it because I don't have any plastic wrap, so it still breathes a little. I have been spraying very frequently, four or five times a day, whenever I see the towels start to dry out.


And here's the right side of the tank, where Willie is now, from above.

I'm not sure about switching to soil just yet. I was hoping I would be able to keep them on paper towels for a while, but if I must to keep my frog healthy, I will. I'll keep the plants in pots though and just leave them on top of the soil and I don't want to go the whole nine yards with this tank. Hopefully the situation corrects itself before it gets much worse...

Does anyone see chytrid being a possible problem here...? I'm not sure what the symptoms are but I know it has to do with the skin...I'm really nervous...

Thanks again guys, keep up the suggestions! I'll take whatever you can give me. ><