Frozen or Tropical? Need to setup worm habitats.

[MeTree]

Hey guys. I have tons of small plastic bins in my room that I have bought just for live food. I am going to ask about 3 different types of worms. 1. Mealworms (for my sister's leopard gecko 2. Night Crawlers (aka earthworms) 3. Waxworms (for the occasional treat).

Please help me find out what the pros and cons are for Refridgerated and Tropical tempreture setups.

My biggest question is,"why always refridgerate worms?". When you buy mealworms, it says "refridgerate". If you buy night crawlers from a bait shop, it says "refridgerate". Why? Is it metabolism issues (too hyper? Shortened lifespan?), smell issues, breeding issues, health issues, or what? I NEED to know, because I have heard of people setting up warm temp setups for mealworms and waxworms. I have seen super worms in a warm setup.

I want to setup Mealworms and Waxworms in a divided plastic (Sterlife) container. I want to give the mealworms oatmeal substrate with a sponge for moister. I want to give the waxworms a really weird substrate that uses a cereal called,"weetabix". I can't see how that is great for the frog, but at least it will have some energy lol. If there is anything you guys (preferably waxworm breeders/keepers) would like to recomend as substrate, I will more readily accept your advice than some random article on the internet.

For the nightcrawlers, I may just leave in the fridge. I would love to have them in warm temps (and my parents would love for them not to be in the fridge), so if there is anything that you guys can suggest in that area, please do.

PLEASE RESPOND to this post! Even if you only have knowledge in 1 or so areas. I really do not want to lose a big colony of worms of any kind.

Thank you Frog Forum community!!

MeTree,

[Leefrogs]

I have looked in to waxies and crawlers. Have not put it into practice yet. But waxies I hear you can use torn up wax paper. Food is honey and cereal. As far as the worms, northern crawlers don't breed real easy. They have to be chilled over winter, but not to cold. I was looking into the tropical variety of these, but the same thing, slow breeding. If you feed your worms, don't mix food into the soil, it can cause rot and kill your colony. Just put it at the top, and sprinkle dirt on.


Red wigglers breed allot better than crawlers.

As far as chilling, ya it's because of metabolism, and because people don't feed their worms. I keep my waxies at room temp and they last just as long, make sure to remove any condensation from the lid, moisture will aide in quicker death. I get 1 of 10 to moth. They cacoon themselves in a ball of shavings, so check it well before throwing away. They're quite small moths for a larger pupae.

[UncleChester]

Refrigerating will keep them from pupating and maturing into adults. If you just want you tub of worms as food and don't want to breed, then keep 'em cool.

I've only really had success with breeding mealworms (my waxworms make many moths, but no young yet). I wouldn't bother with a sponge for moisture, you can just drop in a slice of carrot, celery, kale, lettuce or whatever veg you have on hand every couple of days. I use a mix of oatmeal, wheat germ and wheat bran whizzed up in a food processor as food/substrate. You can keep a couple of bins, one with worms and one that you move the pupae over into for them to mature into adults and breed. Room temperature is fine, more heat will speed up the breeding process. They are hard to kill even with neglect- I've read more than one story of people who forgot about a shoebox sized colony for a few months only to find it filled with young mealworms.

[MeTree]

Thanks guys! That is really neat!

I don't know why I forgot that earthworms, mealworms, and waxworms are a larvae. Breeding moths sounds interesting, but diffecult! It may come to that, though, because my sister's gecko is temporarily using it as a staple.

So I will keep the night crawlers in the fridge in their little can of humus peat whatever, and I will take the mealworms out of the fridge and build them a habitat.

Now I have an entirely new question...How do I breed moths?? Just when you think you know it all....................

Thanks again guys!

[berksmike]

I breed my waxworms on a 1:1:1 mixture of Ready brek (instant porridge oats with added vitamins), wheatgerm and wheatbran (about 1 cup of each). I then add a couple of table spoons of dried active bakers yeast and bring the lot together with honey and glycerol. The glycerol stops the mixture drying out. You want to coat all the ingredients with the honey/glycerol giving you a crumbly texture that isnt too wet. You can added shaved beeswax to this but I have had great success without it.

Have them in a ventilated container with a piece of kitchen towel under the lid. The larvae can eat thru anything so My lids are ventilated with very fine stainless steel mesh. It can seem that nothing is happening and then theres an explosion of larvae!

[MeTree]

Whoa, neat! Do Waxworms turn into moths also? I am hesitant on breeding something that is going to fly away when I open the lid.

Just an update. I went to Petsmart today. I got 50 baby mealworms and put them in a container. I believe they are on pure oatmeal right now, so I will need to go to the store and get them some other stuff. I mixed the big ones with the little ones, I hope that will be Ok. I threw in some Potato slices for moister.

I also got Waxworms!! I didn't know Petsmart carried Waxworms! I am so excited! I got 50 of them. I do not suppose I will be breedint the waxies, so they can just stay in the fridge right next to the Baby Night Crawlers and they will be fine, correct?

My Pacman Frog happily gobbled down a Waxworm today. I know they should be fed sparingly, but I don't really have any idea how often. My Pacman frog isn't eating Pinkies yet, it is too small. How often should I feed my Pacman Waxworms, and how many in one setting. I just need a general idea. That would be alot better than me just not knowing the answer lol.

Thank you all for helping me! I am so excited to start setting up colonies!

[berksmike]

They do turn into moths but frogs will eat them as well! Greater waxworms like the ones in pet shops can breed very quickly and in massive numbers. The lesser waxworms take longer to breed.

[MeTree]

They do turn into moths but frogs will eat them as well! Greater waxworms like the ones in pet shops can breed very quickly and in massive numbers. The lesser waxworms take longer to breed.

So, what do you mean by "massive numbers"?
Are you talking about 20-50 or something like 200-500 or more than that? It is hard to tell when breeding feeders what a massive number is LOL.

I probably will not breed Waxworms. I do not like the idea of little moths escaping and flying around my house. My house has enough moths in it as it is LOL.

I do plan on breeding Mealworms, though. I have regular mealworms in with "giant" mealworms right now. I have read that "giant" mealworms are actually treated with a growth hormone, and are not able to reproduce. I am really excited about the little guys, though! I can't wait to have an excuse to have tons of beetles walking around! That is going to be very interesting! I had no idea that mealworms turned into beetles!

Anyway, I have the habitat mostly setup. I still need to swing by the store and pickup some wheat bran. I am using the oatmeal from the cups as substrate, and have fed them potatos.

Here are some pics of the Mealworm habitat until I get more substrate.

[berksmike]

Ive never had a problem with escaped moths - they arent great flyers anyway - hence why they are so easily picked off by frogs.
From a pot of 50 original waxworms you would get a few hundred worms given enough culture medium

[MeTree]

Hey guys.

I got some Wheat Germ for my Mealworms. It says "refridgerate after opening". What do I do? Can I still use it, or do I have to take it back to the store? That is the only Wheat Germ product in the store. Please help.

Thanks!

[JSG]

I have been breeding mealworms for quite some time. I have started out with just three tubs of 180 worms each and at this stage I don't even know how many 1'000's I have, maybe even millions!
So my recipe is quite easy.
I only use wheatbran as a substrate, I have found that oatmeal is too expensive and too course. Then I feed them all vegetable and fruit leftovers from the kitchen except POTATOES as all forms of potatoes have a natural cyanide. So if you feed your worms potatoes, guess what, you are actually slowly but surely killing your pets! Carrots are good as they are high in vit. C and beta carotene. I normally whizz the carrots through the food processor and then just add a t-spoon per box of worms. Bananas = magnesium, apple cores = lots of moisture.
Then I have the "adult" worms in a plastic tub with an inch of wheatbran. I check this box every day to remove the pupae. If you don't remove the pupae the worms will eat them for their moisture content.
The pupae are removed and placed in a seperate smaller tub also on a bed of wheatbran; just so that the beetles hatching have something to munch on and to make sure the pupae are at a warm temperature. This container do NOT get any fruit or veg, moisture will cause them to rot.
Then the beetles are removed from the pupae box and placed in a separate container. (100 beetles per box). The beetles are also kept on wheatbran and fed fruit and veg. I remove the beetles once every 2 weeks and place them in a fresh box. If you don't do this, the beetles will eat their own eggs.
The wheatbran with the eggs are left for another 2 weeks after I have removed the beetles to make sure all the eggs have hatched. Then using a very fine mesh I sift the wheatbran to make sure I get ALL the baby worms. Once I have the baby worms seperated from the frass (worm poo) I start back at stage 1.

While the worms are growing I also sift them once every 2 weeks to get rid of all the frass and place them on new and fresh wheatbran. In case you wondered, my worms are the healthiest and best looking worms I have ever seen when comparing to worms from pet stores. Not boasting, juts stating a fact.
My animals can't seem to get enough of them and my super worms. Super worms however are a completely different kettle of fish.

[MeTree]

Awesome! Thanks for your very informative post!

Right now I have about 45 regular mealworms in with about 35 "giant" mealworms. I know that "giant" mealworms will not breed, because they are grown with a growth hormone. I guess I will just leave the worms in there until my sister's gecko eats them all.

I am wondering what the mealworms look like after they start changing. I have heard that they are hard, and rolled up. I have these hard, rolled up black mealworms, but I can't tell if they are going to the next stage, or if they are just dead.

Thank you for your advice on the Potatos. I am removing the potatos (from my 2 cricket bins also) and replacing it with carrots and bananas. I hope those don't rot quickly.

Hopefully I will have tons and tons of mealworms in afew months. Maybe I can even start supplying my LFS, because I know that they get those in occasionally. I hope I will never have to go to Petsmart and buy more mealworms even again, not because I don't like Petsmart, but just because it is nice to fell self-relient.

I hope I can get my cricket colony going also, but I haven't had any luck with that. I'll probably start a new thread for that.

Thanks everyone!

( edit: )

What is Wheat Bran? I am allergic to all that stuff (wheat) so I don't eat it, but I don't mind buying it. I have something called "Wheat Germ", is that the same thing? If not, I'll take the Wheat Germ back to the grocery store and get some Wheat Bran instead. That is a cereal, right?

[UncleChester]

I am wondering what the mealworms look like after they start changing. I have heard that they are hard, and rolled up. I have these hard, rolled up black mealworms, but I can't tell if they are going to the next stage, or if they are just dead.

Photos of a lone pupa, a mass of pupa and an adult beelte are attached. The pupa is hard but will wiggle if disturbed. Hard and black doesn't sound good.

I hope I can get my cricket colony going also, but I haven't had any luck with that. I'll probably start a new thread for that.

If you haven't already seen it, check out the care article by Paul http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...e-cricket.html


Wheat germ and bran aren't the same, I use both with no problems. JSG is probably right about oatmeal being too coarse- I do whizz it up in the food processor first. I also buy bags of all my worm food at the bulk store when it goes on sale.

[MeTree]

Very helpful pictures! Thanks UncleChester!

Also, I have read the cricket care article that Frog Forum provides, as well as many other articles. I figured out that the problem was that my crickets were too young and/or too cramped.

I went to the LFS today and got 40 ADULT crickets that were chirping up a storm. I went to Lowe's and got an 18 gallon plastic bin for $4.74USD. Now I have 45+ adult crickets, plus some almost adult crickets thrown in (the LFS perposely gave me too many crickets lol). Now I have a chirping melody 24/7 (starting at noon today) in my bedroom! Yay! I love the sound! It beats filter noises any day, which used to be what I went to sleep listening to. I think the colony is going to do great! I put in a full egg flat (one of 3) that I ordered from josh's frogs this week. It looks great! Happy crickets!

I will take out the cocofiber I have in there (in a small container) out in about 10 days, dump that in the baby container, and then I will replace the cocofiber in the breeding tank. I should have hundreds in about 3 weeks if the cocofiber and crickets are properly taken care of, right? Ideally?

Thanks for all y'all's help!