First Build - Second Post

[wosborne]

First, thanks everyone for their incite and guidance. Second, this is my first build so go easy. Nah, lay it on me. Houses (02) Whites - 40 gal tall.

OK, I installed a false bottom as described through out this forum. Next added screen then gravel (2") then coco fiber soil (2") and then moss (3").

First mistake? Didn't add another screen between the gravel and coco fiber soil.

Second mistake? Too much moss or should I be using it at all.

Third mistake? Did not remove the false bottom at the pond area to make it deeper. Right now its about 1/2" deep. No water fall but the water circulates with a pump and enter the pump at the back of the tank and I have it exiting right at the pond in the front. Is this ok?

Some more questions:
Do I need a water bowl or is the pond sufficient?
Can I feed them in the tank or remove them and then feed?
I have a pad tank heater under the tank to heat the water. Bad move?

Thanks for all the input, I know its a lot. Again, I am very glad to be here and the advice has be great.

Sorry about the picture quality - iphone.

[wosborne]

Also, what about plants. How much room is needed? Any recommendations?

[Kisa]

First off, that tank is amazing for your first build. XD My White's tank was TERRIBLE when I first brought him home, it took two changes to get to where I am now and I think I need to do ANOTHER rebuild because I'll be adding three more White's in the coming months. XD; But anyway, enough about me...

The screen between the coco fiber and the gravel isn't necessary unless you have live plants in there (or so I assume) and I'm not sure that even if you do have live plants it will be much of a detriment. More people should comment on this specifically because I don't really have the technical expertise to tell you anything, but I wanted to leave my 2 cents just in case.

The moss should be ok as long as you don't see the White's ingesting too much of it. Impaction has always been a big fear of mine, so I am constantly worrying about the moss, but that's just me. I used leaf liter (from Josh's Frogs, sea grape leaves) to put over the moss to ease my mind a bit. It also ends up looking very good in the viv overall.

I have to say I think your pond is a little shallow for White's. Mine LOVE to soak deep in the water at night, I'll see them hunker down and try to get the water over their backs a little. I bought an especially deep water bowl for my first White's, and it may be my best buy for him yet. XD; Is there anyway to make it just a little deeper? 1 or 1 1/2 inches should be good, depending on the size of your frogs. If they're still babies 1/2 an inch should work for a little while. If you want you can get a deeper water bowl to substitute for what the pond lacks, as long as you have enough surface area to support one.

You can feed your frogs in the tank if you want. Lots of people use a cricket bowl, just a glass or plastic dish that is deep enough to keep the crickets from escaping or jumping out. I have to take my big White's out to feed because he has damaged eyes, but as long as their happy and healthy they should do fine if you feed them inside the tank. Besides ingesting the moss, you really have nothing to fear. White's are scrupulous, they'll find the little buggers eventually. XD

Heated water could be good or bad depending on the frog. My big guy used to not be so partial to warm water, but now that he's gotten used to me and the soaks I think he's ok with them. As long as the water doesn't go above the high seventies you should be alright, they might even like it!

Bromeliads are great plants for White's as they have big, thick, strong leaves that can hold up the bulk of these HUGE frogs. Snake plant is also and excellent choice, it's bigger and stronger than the bromeliad and is near impossible to kill. I have both of these plants in my White's viv and the snake plant in my P. tomopterna's viv as well if you want to take a look in my album.

Other than that, all is well, great job! Hope this has helped.

[wosborne]

Thanks for you kind words. I deepened the pool and increased the circulation a bit. I also put the pump in an aquarium media filer bag to help with the clogs. Also added a heat pad on the back of the tank. Is this safe? As my little dudes like to be against the glass in this area. I am assuming it is as it's not a human heatpad but one made for under tanks. I am having a tough time hitting 80 deg F without it.

Going to buy some live plants and give them a try. How deep should the soil be?

Thanks again for helping out an obsessive frog newbie.

[MikeM670]

First, thanks everyone for their incite and guidance. Second, this is my first build so go easy. Nah, lay it on me. Houses (02) Whites - 40 gal tall.

OK, I installed a false bottom as described through out this forum. Next added screen then gravel (2") then coco fiber soil (2") and then moss (3").

First mistake? Didn't add another screen between the gravel and coco fiber soil.

Second mistake? Too much moss or should I be using it at all.

Third mistake? Did not remove the false bottom at the pond area to make it deeper. Right now its about 1/2" deep. No water fall but the water circulates with a pump and enter the pump at the back of the tank and I have it exiting right at the pond in the front. Is this ok?

Some more questions:
Do I need a water bowl or is the pond sufficient?
Can I feed them in the tank or remove them and then feed?
I have a pad tank heater under the tank to heat the water. Bad move?

Thanks for all the input, I know its a lot. Again, I am very glad to be here and the advice has be great.

Sorry about the picture quality - iphone.

I would like to say that for your first build it looks very nice. I really don't know much about building viv's for tree frogs yet as I have only been keeping darts. As for making mistakes don't get too upset about that. I just tore apart my very first viv because the water feature just did not contain the water properly and it would pump out all the water into the substrate. It worked fine when I tested it for a day without any gravel in the water feature. Unfortunately the way I designed the return was a small 1.5 inch pipe and a screen over the pipe end to keep debris and frogs out of it. The screen did its job but eventually would clog and the water would overflow the pond into the substrate.

For your false bottom did you use expanded clay balls or the egg crate method? Each has it's pros and cons. The expanded clay gives you a huge surface for beneficial bacteria to grow and help clean the water but can be heavy so the viv is harder to move. The egg crate method allows a much lighter tank which makes it easier to use. I have used both types depending on the build. In either case you need a screen to keep the coco fiber from getting down into the clay balls or under the false bottom. With the clay balls you end up clogging the areas around the balls and it can cause improper water flow back to the pump or a water logged smelly mess. A vivarium's soil area should have a earthy smell to it. With the egg crate you end up with a easy path back to the pump where it can clog things up. Also the same issue can apply about the stinky mess.

As for moss in a tree frog enclose I really can't say. I use it all the time in my darts setup and it will naturally grow on its own at some point if the conditions are right. Benefits of moss are it really looks nice with that green carpet on the ground or wood, background ect. It also helps keep the humidity higher. For the impaction issues I can't say with zero experience with tree frogs.

Water should be available for the frogs to soak in. In my case one of my darts spends lots of time jumping around the water area of my tank. Tree frogs do need and like to soak in water that should be clean and not stagnant. So if you have a nice water flow it will be OK. If the water turns a tea color don't worry that is the tannins from the substrate. Its harmless and occurred naturally and in some cases is the type water that tadpoles are raised in.

Feeding is like Kisa says. Some use a glass bowl to put the crickets in so they can't get out and roam around and other just let the frogs hunt them down. I'm kinda partial to having my frogs hunt down the food. It's what they do in nature.

Heating pad. Should be OK like that. Just monitor the temperature carefully and see if it fits within the range needed by your frog. My frog room temp ranges between 72 to 74 so I don't need to provide additional heat right now.

I hope my comments help with your questions.

[Kisa]

Two inches of soil should be deep enough for your plants to take root, that's the depth I have in my tanks.

[wosborne]

2" awesome! Thanks Kisa.

Mike, the false bottom is egg crate, held up 1/2" off the botttom. Then a screen, then gravel and then soil.

Tank is 80 deg. now with heat pad.

[Kisa]

2" awesome! Thanks Kisa.

Mike, the false bottom is egg crate, held up 1/2" off the botttom. Then a screen, then gravel and then soil.

Tank is 80 deg. now with heat pad.

No problem! White's can stand up to a wide range of temperatures, they should be fine at 80-85, when my White's was sick it got into the mid/high 80's in his tank in the day time and he was fine with that. I kept it extra hot to stave off infection.

[MikeM670]

If you don't have a water feature that includes a pump you should be ok with that depth. It won't give you much leeway as far as having to remove excess water so the substrate does not sit in water. You will need to watch that. I have been giving mine about 2 inch's or more depending on the build. If you have a hight false bottom you can always adjust the water level in the pond by using gravel or stones to raise up the surface. If you need a deeper pond just remove some stones.

[wosborne]

I had spacers cut at 1" - guess I will pull from the trash (if I can find them ) and keep for a later build. I do have 2" off gravel over the egg crate so that gives me some room with the water level.

Thanks again!