Breeding pair of toads! :D

[Deku]

SOOO guess what? Today I went herping. Perfect day I tell ya! It was raining an hour before I decided to set out. So I went to this pond/stream near a park that nobody really goes to(except me-lol). I went into the water(it was cold but I have a tolerance for some harsh temperatures I guess..), I keep going to this sorta remote area that seemed partially enclosed and a tad warmer than the other waters.

I found on the shore of it two american toads! In amplexus! I know that both are opposite sexes; because the male is smaller and sorta makes the call when I poke his back(gently), and he's clinging on to the bigger toad. Who hasn't made any noise. I put them in a container in my backpack. They're still clinging onto each other(least the male is). So I set up a small 12x12x12 exo terra filled it up with 2inches deep of water. and a place for them to rest on land(large branch type ornament). The male is still clinging to the female. kinda looks like a rodeo. lol. SOOO I was wondering if this is good enough for them to mate and lay me some toad eggs? or if I need to do something else for them?

The male is olive brown. Sorta looks well pardon my manners.... but uhh from a distance I thought it was poop. :x The female is big! really big! like id say maybe 3.5-4.2inches? Iam making a guess because I don't want to disturb them just to size her up. The male looks to be 2.5-3.0 inches long.

I could put my other toad in there. I think its a she since it never calls or dismount calls when I pick it up. The female toad that is recently caught has some nice reddish brown colors. The female looks to have a rougher skin. Sorta scaley looking. The male had alot of wrts as I can see but the large paratoid glands don't look the same as the females. Wonder if its a type of subspecies?
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There is no gravel or sand in the tank. Temp is room temp. A low uvb light overhead. and I had the fan on the room to make it alittle cooler than it currently is.

[Deku]

Anyone got any tips?

[Deku]

I think they're laying eggs. I see a string of black dots comming out of the females butt. At first I thought it was poop. But I don't know. Iam turning the lights off and hoping for the best. There isn't that clear white goop around the the black stuff. Though idk yet.

[Deku]

OH GEEZ! The female is laying the eggs now! shes laying lots of em! like almost over a hundred(probably like a couple hundreds. Dx)

[Wormwood]

Yeah, those are eggs - they come in a long string. Hopefully the male is fertalizing it though after being stressed/removed from the pond.

My advice would be to return the taddies to the pond when they start to hatch from the eggs, toad tadpoles are terribly hard to raise.

To warm of water and they die, to many of them in an area and they die, to much food and they die. When they do become toadlets they are smaller then the tadpoles once formed, you'll be feeding them fruit flies (the only thing they'll eat at that size) and not all of them will get enough. They are absoutly voracious.

Good luck with whatever you do, but expect a 75%-85% kill rate if you keep them.

[Deku]

Yeah, those are eggs - they come in a long string. Hopefully the male is fertalizing it though after being stressed/removed from the pond.

My advice would be to return the taddies to the pond when they start to hatch from the eggs, toad tadpoles are terribly hard to raise.

To warm of water and they die, to many of them in an area and they die, to much food and they die. When they do become toadlets they are smaller then the tadpoles once formed, you'll be feeding them fruit flies (the only thing they'll eat at that size) and not all of them will get enough. They are absoutly voracious.

Good luck with whatever you do, but expect a 75%-85% kill rate if you keep them.

Umm I'ved kept tadpoles before. I have the space for the tads. One thing is... I didn't have anything to transfer the eggs with. Like I have where they go. But not the stuff to take em out. and I used partially my hands along with a scoop and took the eggs and put em in the new container.

hopefully they'll be okay. They look fine. Except some strands are seperated yet still have the dots inside and the slime. I was told to use an anti-fungal solution. I bought "pimafix" supposed to be natural. Is this okay to use for the eggs? The eggs are in a 3gallon container. It was from one of t hose huge cheese balls containers. lol I have a 3gallon filter in another tank thats been running in a fishtank full of guppies and minnows. Plus a mud turtle. Is it okay to use this filter in the tank? Its run by an airpump.

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P.s. if anything goes wrong. The male is still trying to go at it. So I just got the toad I'ved been keeping for a year since its toadlet form. I found it as a 1inch toadlet. Voracious feeder. She's extremely fat. She was fatter than the wild toad I caught in the stream. Though the wild toad was larger. Yet the one I'ved had is wider in girth. He's mounted her. The eggs are not attached to any ornament. Is that okay?

[Wormwood]

I wouldn't know to be honest, I've never kept wild toad eggs. I remember keeping toad taddies as a kid and the majority died, minus the ones that did fully mature and that I released into the yard.

Sorry to be a buzz kill, just let me know how many die. Be pepared to shell out 50-60 bucks a week for fruit flies.

A 3 gallon bin won't be large enough for 100-300 tadpoles. Taddies do fine in semi-stagnet water, so make sure the pump isn't filtering to much out of the water, or moving around the water to much. I've never seen toads lay eggs in moving water.

[Deku]

I wouldn't know to be honest, I've never kept wild toad eggs. I remember keeping toad taddies as a kid and the majority died, minus the ones that did fully mature and that I released into the yard.

Sorry to be a buzz kill, just let me know how many die. Be pepared to shell out 50-60 bucks a week for fruit flies.

A 3 gallon bin won't be large enough for 100-300 tadpoles. Taddies do fine in semi-stagnet water, so make sure the pump isn't filtering to much out of the water, or moving around the water to much. I've never seen toads lay eggs in moving water.

Eggs have been moved to a 29gallon aquarium that was set up months ago. It had fish in it but I moved the fish temporarily. As for fruit flies---I'm going to culture them, and I think a fellow member is going to help provide me with a jump start culture to get a whole culture of them running. As for crickets---I'm going to invest on breeding them. Either that or find another suitable food source for larger toads(2inches and up)
There's over 5k worth of eggs. That will produce me alot of tadpoles. A lot of tadpoles will also mean that there are higher chances of getting more toadlets. When I succesfully grow the toadlets into a few months in there I will release about a great majority of them and keep atleast 5-61inch toadlets. Just to make sure that I get atleast a couple adults. By the time I get a breeding colony of insects I should have enough to keep up with this upgrade on the hobby. I have a 30gallon(long) already premade. Toads are generally inactive so for a total of 6-7 toads that should be okay. If that's not enough I may end up getting a larger enclosure(no problem) and sell that tank to a friend or something. I was eventually going to get a exo terra terrarium thats 36inches long 24(or 18inches) wide, 24(or 18inches) tall. lol.


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P.s. Alot of them will die regardless if they are kept indoors or outdoors. Outdoors they succumb to harsh conditions like overcrowding, bad water quality(so stagnant water isn't the best but the cleanest water isn't the best either.It should be fairly clean I assume. Where there's not alot of ammonia build up or nitrites.) Even toadlets in the norm not all will survive even if everything is perfect. Indoors or outdoors.
Outdoors they can also be preyed upon. Which is what happens. So in reality I will have more toadlets than there would if they were outdoors. Keeping in mind the toadlets would be from ONE single batch of eggs. On contrast to the DOZENS AND DOZENS of batches of eggs in the wild.

they produce many eggs because they know that not all will make it to adulthood. Just like a sea turtle.

Thanks for the warning though. Iam prepared to scoop out deads daily. Iam going to be doing weekly water changes as well.

[Wormwood]

American Toads are more active then you think, I have eight of them. They are only inactive if you over feed them and cramp them in a tank, if you supply them space they enjoy climbing around and digging new burrows. I have mine in a 150 gallon enclosure and they are out every night wandering the tank looking for crickets and heading back and forth to the water source (pond). Wild toads do not sit in one place at night, they move around and search for prey, finding backyard lights and other sources where bugs gather.

A 30 gallon tank is good for three adults, especially large females, anything more and your cramping them in. A 40 gallon breeder tank could fit four pretty well (with a smaller pool).
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If you have 5k eggs, throw half back into the water - there is no way you'll be able to hatch, keep alive even half of those tadpoles. It' far better giving them a chance out in the wild then letting them die in waves in a tank. There is no way 2,000 tadpoles will even make it in a small 29 gallon tank, if you think so your delusional.

If your doing all this for 5-6 little toadlets, phah... go online and order four from Florida and a dealer at $5 bucks a pop. It'll save you on the cost of fruit flies, and save hundreds if not thousands of little toadlets and tadpoles from death. At least in the wild they'd have a fighting chance, more become toadlets then you think. I remember setting 20 toadlets go in my yard as a child and the next spring I found 10 little toads under the wooden porch/deck of my parent's back yard.

[Deku]

American Toads are more active then you think, I have eight of them. They are only inactive if you over feed them and cramp them in a tank, if you supply them space they enjoy climbing around and digging new burrows. I have mine in a 150 gallon enclosure and they are out every night wandering the tank looking for crickets and heading back and forth to the water source (pond). Wild toads do not sit in one place at night, they move around and search for prey, finding backyard lights and other sources where bugs gather.

A 30 gallon tank is good for three adults, especially large females, anything more and your cramping them in. A 40 gallon breeder tank could fit four pretty well (with a smaller pool).
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If you have 5k eggs, throw half back into the water - there is no way you'll be able to hatch, keep alive even half of those tadpoles. It' far better giving them a chance out in the wild then letting them die in waves in a tank. There is no way 2,000 tadpoles will even make it in a small 29 gallon tank, if you think so your delusional.

If your doing all this for 5-6 little toadlets, phah... go online and order four from Florida and a dealer at $5 bucks a pop. It'll save you on the cost of fruit flies, and save hundreds if not thousands of little toadlets and tadpoles from death. At least in the wild they'd have a fighting chance, more become toadlets then you think. I remember setting 20 toadlets go in my yard as a child and the next spring I found 10 little toads under the wooden porch/deck of my parent's back yard.

Iam not saying I think that I would have 2k tadpoles in my tank. If I have too many tadpoles I'd put them in a seperate tank, and the ones I can't keep Id release. Then when they morph Id set them free and keep a few. I never said I'd keep every toad from the clutch. But I was going to keep atleast good amount of tadpoles to have a good chance of full metamorphosis. If I wanted to buy them, I'd had buy them a few years ago. I wanted to fully experience the tadpole cycle. It's not that bad as you may think.
I am already planning on when to release alot of the tadpoles. If there actually ends up being 2k tadpoles in my tank I would let go alot of them and keep 100tadpoles or so. Because not a great deal of them will make it into a toadlet. By then I would release a great deal of toadlets and keep a certain amount. If I need two tanks, that's fine. But if I recall I remember another user which is also moderator state that toads are not super active. Infact Ill bring up a few links from some sites that say they're not that active.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.ed...mericanus.html



Ill also post links saying what you are saying:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...0-10WRiw&pli=1

http://www.uri.edu/cels/nrs/paton/LH_ea_toad.html

http://www.herpnet.net/Minnesota-Her...rogs&Itemid=63


I guess it really depends. But either way don't worry Ill just use an extra tank I have for the extra toads. :] Or I wonder if I could possibly buy a used 75g tank and use it and house 10toads in total in there.

[Whistly]

Lol you must really want some toads to go through all of this I think you'll make a great "parent" of these frogs.

[Wormwood]

You really aren't listening to my advice are you? 200 tadpoles in a 29 gallon tank is pushing it, you'll need 10 tanks to support 2,000 tadpoles, with many pumps and filters (not just one, from what you made it sound like) 10 full grown toads in a 75 gallon tank is pushing it. And don't think the larger the tank is better for the taddies, they need shallow water since they need to come up for air. Mature toads are not tree frogs, which can make use of the entire tank, height and width and I think alot of hobbiest forget this with ground dwelling species, in the end stressing them out and overpacking them into a tank.

If you want to experience tadpoles keep 50 of them. From all your posts you seem really, really, unprepared for how much work and time you'll have to put into keeping these guys alive - which is why I'm getting more and more opposed to your choice of keeping them (and 10 toads) after they fully grow.

Has that moderator kept American toads all his life, in various settings? You can trust me that they are very active, especially nocturanally, they do not sit in one place like alot of herp species. They move around to feed like any other amphibian that doesn't rely on water.

[Deku]

You really aren't listening to my advice are you? 200 tadpoles in a 29 gallon tank is pushing it, you'll need 10 tanks to support 2,000 tadpoles, with many pumps and filters (not just one, from what you made it sound like) 10 full grown toads in a 75 gallon tank is pushing it. And don't think the larger the tank is better for the taddies, they need shallow water since they need to come up for air. Mature toads are not tree frogs, which can make use of the entire tank, height and width and I think alot of hobbiest forget this with ground dwelling species, in the end stressing them out and overpacking them into a tank.

If you want to experience tadpoles keep 50 of them. From all your posts you seem really, really, unprepared for how much work and time you'll have to put into keeping these guys alive - which is why I'm getting more and more opposed to your choice of keeping them (and 10 toads) after they fully grow.

Has that moderator kept American toads all his life, in various settings? You can trust me that they are very active, especially nocturanally, they do not sit in one place like alot of herp species. They move around to feed like any other amphibian that doesn't rely on water.

Jeez. Dude Iam not the best at counting(moving objects) so Ill probably end up keeping less in the end.. Calm down. I'm unprepared because they were trying to mate on their own and it seemed really mean to just make them stop alltogether. Plus if anything Ill wait till they hatch first and then start seperating them. When they do ill give the rest to my friend with a pond.

You must not know me to think Iam not prepared. I am always -over- prepared. I have many tanks. Ill take a picture to show you just how many tanks I have

. Iam not even kidding. I have three 55gallons(one is in use), the 29gallon, the 30gallon(for the adult toads--currently I'm planning on doing something better for them. I just need to find out a few ideas). I also have a 29gallon rubbermaid, a 30(breeder style) gallon rubbermaid and I could just get more rubbermaid if I really wanna keep all of the tadpoles. But in reality I wouldn't keep all of them.

I stated that in the previous post.

Also there are many ways for caring for an animal. Nothing is set in stone. Just because your toads are active doesn't mean every toad has to be active. I don't say you're not experienced. But alot of people have different opinions on how to care for an animal. If I followed your opinion Iam pretty sure someone else will call me stupid and say Iam either over doing it or doing too little or something like that.

From my experience I noticed american toads in nature are not that active to begin with. They DO move around quite a bit. But they're not ALWAYS on the move.

Not everyone has alot of money just to get a huge tank which could easily cost over 1k. People have to pay bills, people have to buy food for themselves and their animals. But no Iam not stating give it the lesser care.

Just stating there's more than one way to care for an animal. A toad is not a turtle. They're pretty bulky and built for digging for the most part. Like I said--- not to say they wont move around. But its not like a turtle which needs alot more space due to the HIGH activity level. Its not a fire belly toad either.

You can't really tell whether an animal is happy or not. If the basic needs are met they will be happy. As well as if you give them comfort zones and the space thats fine. But you can't say that 10toads would need something like a 200gallon tank. That's irrational imo.

I do love my pets and I do give them as much luxuries I can give. But seriously. Thats over doing it. A 75gallon tank is around what? 48" x 18" x 21"? Even in a 30gallon a few toads that seems extremely spacious. Plus for a 75g tank the height could be put to use. you can easily build a second level persay. They do that for hermit crabs. If you put steps they would be able to climb it easily.

But even that is still irrational.
I'm not trying to pick on you, or pick on what you say. It's not even that Iam uninformed--- its more of Iam trying to make sure the information I got out of constant reading is fine. If the eggs hatch in a few days that gives me plenty of time to improvise and get what I need.

Plus 200tadpoles are the size of almost a grain of rice. Smaller than a guppy. I never stated I will keep 2,000 tadpoles. That's just stupid of me. That would be over doing it beyond reason.
But there are several things to consider: In nature tadpole eggs(atleast american toads so far as I know) in my neck of the woods tend to lay their eggs in temporarily pools of water. Ussually no deeper than half a foot(sometimes 2feet---but rarely as what I have seen), while the length of it can be perhaps 3-4feet long. Like I said I ussually see them in small creeks of a sort that have a slight waterflow but not too strong. As well as the confined area is not that big. And in said conditions you could find like over 15,000 tadpoles. Plus their water tends to be murky.

Owning an animal doesn't make a person an expert. Hey I'ved own turtles 7-8 years now. Iam no expert though. There's a commonly known law of science---- it is always evolving. Stuff gets outdated eventually.

But in reality I have a few fall back plans in case I notice something going really wrong:
1)My friend has a large pond over 300gallons. He leaves it empty for frogs to lay eggs. Because he too enjoys frogs and toads.
2)I could just go to the creek and release alot of them(which Iam doing anyways to reduce their numbers significantly and increase the wild population which is my ultimate goal)
3)I could seperate them into the tanks that are empty and lying about. I mean its only 2months at most for t hem to develop completely. In that case a higher ratio of toadlets would make it. Versus in the wild were apparently wild birds like to scoop them up and gobble them. Or die from extreme overcrowding(over 15k), or lack of food, etc. As well as the water is extremely dirty to begin with. Sometimes Ived seen them in semi-polluted waters.

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P.s. Iam not trying to sound rude. But I do attend other forums for amphibians to check opinions and answers. I just don't want to be piled on top on by either one if Iam wrong or something. I mean I AM only human. ATLEAST Iam trying hard to get educated as much as possible.

I do research online and I ask questions to review what I learnt and if Iam wrong I ask why I am wrong to learn from my mistake. But like I said. Everyone has different opinions on pet care. Someone could say goldfish need 1 pond per goldfish, while another could say that a 20gallon is the bareminimum for a standard goldfish while a 75tank would be optimal for atleast having 2-3.

While another could say that a 55gallon could hold 6goldfish, and a 75g would be able to hold an extra 1-2more.

Get what Iam getting at? Hopefully you aren't offended at all. I just don't like being attacked.

[Deku]

Lol you must really want some toads to go through all of this I think you'll make a great "parent" of these frogs.

Thank you.

[Wormwood]

"Lol you must really want some toads to go through all of this I think you'll make a great "parent" of these frogs."

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasim.
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I'm not attacking you, I honestly wish you the best of luck for the Toad's sakes since you plan to keep them. Do I agree with you plucking two mating toads out of the wild? Hell no. If I'm coming off as strong it's because I don't think you've thought this all through or even care to listen to my views.

And yes, caring for an Animal is never set in stone - do I think I know whats best for American Toads, yes I do. Am I an expert? Probally as close you'll get to one, as far as a hobbiest goes. Growing up when I've kept toads in smaller tanks and in greater numbers they don't live as long, don't move around and instead dig in because they feel stressed. If they are comfortable they will move around the tank. It's not an Irrational at all, it's how they react in a tank setting with other toads when given space and more freedom.

The 2nd level thing might work though if substrate was incorperated. I saw a tank once which used two levels and the toads where more then happy to climb up and down ramps to get to bugs and other hidey places.

Toad tadpoles are easily the size of a dime, much larger then a grain of rice.

[Deku]

"Lol you must really want some toads to go through all of this I think you'll make a great "parent" of these frogs."

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasim.
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I'm not attacking you, I honestly wish you the best of luck for the Toad's sakes since you plan to keep them. Do I agree with you plucking two mating toads out of the wild? Hell no. If I'm coming off as strong it's because I don't think you've thought this all through or even care to listen to my views.

And yes, caring for an Animal is never set in stone - do I think I know whats best for American Toads, yes I do. Am I an expert? Probally as close you'll get to one, as far as a hobbiest goes. Growing up when I've kept toads in smaller tanks and in greater numbers they don't live as long, don't move around and instead dig in because they feel stressed. If they are comfortable they will move around the tank. It's not an Irrational at all, it's how they react in a tank setting with other toads when given space and more freedom.

The 2nd level thing might work though if substrate was incorperated. I saw a tank once which used two levels and the toads where more then happy to climb up and down ramps to get to bugs and other hidey places.

Toad tadpoles are easily the size of a dime, much larger then a grain of rice.

Umm half the size of a dime. Well the ones around here atleast. Stuff from the wild is "okay". Sure there are captive breeders out there that may sell online. But I quit buying stuff alive online a long time ago. Through bad experience with breeders/salespeople. Most of the times the stuff would arrive dead. Or die within the same day. Sometimes the person carrying the package(UPS and such) would fail to knock on the door. Even then I had to wait outside for a couple of hours just to open a package and find the animals dead. I'ved ordered fish, turtles, and a couple of frogs(whites treefrog where the frogs)-- all arrived dead within arrival. Plus I don't -think- toads live longer in the wild that they would in captivity. Because of the fact there are many things that can affect them in the wild such as:
-Predators(just because they are toxic doesn't mean they don't have any predators)
-Weather(sometimes floods, and other crazy weather could kill them. I remember going to a river once, there was a big thunderstorm and the toad had its leg wedged in between a rock.)
-Accidents(they could drown, they could be crushed by a large object--- I did see it happen a few times, they could get accidentally whacked by a weed hacker.)
-Predators(birds, snakes, nocturnal animals)
-People: sometimes they can be ran over, stepped on accidentally(sometimes you cant tell when they are there apparently since they got good camouflage), mutilated by a weed hacker, etc. That's just my opinion. They do get used to captivity, as would any animal. In all honesty even a captive bred toad is still "wild". Its not "tame" in the sense they will love you like another person would.


Okay if he was sarcastic that's his problem. As well as if I didn't care to listen to your views, i'd simply disregard it and say "okay, will do". That's ussually a sign that I don't care. The whole two level thing is not that hard but I asked a few people on some other forums about doing something like that--- I ended up getting negative responses.
A 75gallon is NOT a small tank for most people. That's actually on the big side. ---Though you did give me a great idea for a tank set up. A second level will also provide shade for the bottom level(like night time), so a light could be kept going on the upper level for them(not overly bright--- I myself don't like extremely bright lights so I get that). I just need to make sure that the bottom level can stay dark enough. (I will work on the idea--fix some bugs here and there)


Anywho asides of my idea. You're not an expert if you don't have a degree. Just wanted to point it out---not attacking you. You maybe more advanced but that's different.

Anywho. I will try your idea in one tank, and try my idea in another and see how it works just for the "trial and error" sake and I will tell you how it goes. I really love toads, and I want to learn as much as possible as I can. But I also want to learn visually. I want to experience the life cycle of a toad. I want to see the color morphs they have(variations they have) so I can pick a few specifically.

[Deku]

Good news everyone!

It seems that the eggs have started to hatch! They're turning into larvae; which I assume is those little comas. They have no eyes, nothing. They're just there 1mm above the eggs I think they do this untill they get slightly bigger to get the shape of a tadpole.

Weird news: My male finally let go of the other fat female who didn't want to lay eggs. But now is making a mating call. Even though Iam right next to it. Apparently it feels comfortable enough to do so. lol
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Jesus. I just noticed that there were more that hatched already. But are still trying to build their bodies. Btw for the tadpoles. Would it be bad if I pick alot of them to be the smallest? I figured smaller tadpoles produce smaller toads? I like the petite look of some of the smaller eastern american toads. Since not all toads are going to be the same size obviously.

Ill be releasing alot of them soon.

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How can you tell what the adult color they will be when they are toadlets?

[Whistly]

"Lol you must really want some toads to go through all of this I think you'll make a great "parent" of these frogs."

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasim..

Wormwood
I wasn't being sarcastic I put Parent in quotation marks because he's not really their parent is he.

Deku
I apologise if what I said sounded sarcastic.
I think that you are really doing/done your research. I wish you the best of luck, please could you put up a photo of the breedig pair. I don't really pay attention to toads but I have recently taken an interest in them unfortunately I can't keep any. Thanks

[Deku]

Wormwood
I wasn't being sarcastic I put Parent in quotation marks because he's not really their parent is he.

Deku
I apologise if what I said sounded sarcastic.
I think that you are really doing/done your research. I wish you the best of luck, please could you put up a photo of the breedig pair. I don't really pay attention to toads but I have recently taken an interest in them unfortunately I can't keep any. Thanks

I didn't take any offense to it. Infact when I first read it, I didn't think of it as you being sarcastic. I too as well assumed what you have just said.

I will post a picture sometime today or tommorrow. Since my only source of photos would be my parent's cellphone cam. So ill try today or tommorrow.
Ps. thank you. The reason Iam asking questions is merely out of reviewing my answers. I tend to listen more to the people who are kindly about it or atleast sound kindly about it.

[Zach]

I raise toad tads every year, and its not hard at all. Until they become toadlets, then they are pretty much impossible to feed. Once they get front legs, I would reccomend letting most of the go and keep maybe 5 at the most. They will still be incredibly difficult to feed, sometimes fruitflies are to big. However if you go back to the same location you found the adults in in about a month, you should find lots of little toadlets that are big enough to feed. On a side note, the toads here are going crazy. i got several dood pics of pairs in amplexus. I'll post them if anyones interested. I'm currently working on a documentary of the life cycle of the American toad.