Ultimate Vivarium

[Leefrogs]

Because all the plastic is covered with silicone or mortar isn't it safe?

[Tropicok]

I guess if you like the "droopy" look but not the loveliest one I've seen.

[JSG]

Hi guys, yes both these vivs are gorgeous and I also don't understand the poisonous thing?????
Them Eric, instead of using the plastic / pvc ropes and pipes, can't the same look be obtained by using various thickness of sisal rope? Sisal as far as I know is a natural product. Ok admittedly, the sisal would most probably rot away if it is exposed to dampness all the time, but then surely with it being covered with the concrete mix this would be minimalized, no?
Looking forward in hearing the experts take on this.

[MikeM670]

I think Eric's comment was more about using natural products if possible vs the petroleum based plastics and such. I also like the look of the terrarium and do have to admit the way he constructed it with various man made products was interesting and produced a fantastic looking tank.

I just purchased a bunch of sisal based rope of various sizes to create vines. Yes the rope itself will be natural but it will be covered with brown silicone and peat/coco fibers so it won't be all natural. I guess since it will be fully covered with the silicone the natural rope fibers should last for many years. The rope I could find will not make the bigger root/vine or tree trunk look the builder might be looking for. I know you can get it much larger as the stuff used in tying up ships but that would be too heavy and I have no idea on cost. I also doubt you could purchase it in the lengths we would need. So that leaves PVC piping as one simple and relatively cheap option.

[clownonfire]

Hi guys, yes both these vivs are gorgeous and I also don't understand the poisonous thing?????
Them Eric, instead of using the plastic / pvc ropes and pipes, can't the same look be obtained by using various thickness of sisal rope? Sisal as far as I know is a natural product. Ok admittedly, the sisal would most probably rot away if it is exposed to dampness all the time, but then surely with it being covered with the concrete mix this would be minimalized, no?
Looking forward in hearing the experts take on this.

Mike is right. It's just that PVC is probably one of the worst product/material for our planet... Yes, we use silicone and expanding foam, but personally, I am trying to limit using such materials. This is why I tried to do a whole clay/natural products in my last viv.

[MikeM670]

I'm working on some new 10 gallon vivariums using the clay/kitty litter backgrounds. I want to see how well this works, how well it will stand up and how much maintenance it really needs.

The one thing I do suspect is that the clay backgrounds probably can't be used for higher backgrounds without having a very thick base. Just like in building construction that was based on stone the bases were very thick in order to achieve great hight. Just look at all those old Cathedrals and you will see what I mean.

Now maybe one could glue horizontal bracing onto the glass at various heights to support each layer above it thus achieving a thinner background that won't sag downward.

When I talk about a thinner background I don't mean really thin but the right balance of clay to support both the clay above it, plant growth and moister retention.

Currently I am gathering components for a vertical 40 Gallon Breeder tank and I suspect it might be a combination of foam and clay to obtain the look I want.

[JSG]

I'm working on some new 10 gallon vivariums using the clay/kitty litter backgrounds. I want to see how well this works, how well it will stand up and how much maintenance it really needs.

The one thing I do suspect is that the clay backgrounds probably can't be used for higher backgrounds without having a very thick base. Just like in building construction that was based on stone the bases were very thick in order to achieve great hight. Just look at all those old Cathedrals and you will see what I mean.

Now maybe one could glue horizontal bracing onto the glass at various heights to support each layer above it thus achieving a thinner background that won't sag downward.

When I talk about a thinner background I don't mean really thin but the right balance of clay to support both the clay above it, plant growth and moister retention.

Currently I am gathering components for a vertical 40 Gallon Breeder tank and I suspect it might be a combination of foam and clay to obtain the look I want.

Please forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I have more questions regarding this poisonous / unnatural products used.
1. In most of the viv building threads thus far I have seen people using foam etc to construct their backgrounds, why now is it a problem?
2. Yes, natural products, such as clay, would most probably be more pleasing to us, maybe even to the frogs in some way, but would it be practical?
3. If we can mimic nature so well, by using these synthetic products, that our animals are breeding (a sign of them being happy), shouldn't we then rather compliment ourselves. As we would never be Mother Nature, we can always strive to get as close as possible - but is the truth not that we will never be as perfect?
4. Aesthetically our vivs should be pleasing as that sparks the interest to keep one going, but as we are trying to help Mother Nature along, our vivs should also be practical, no?

Forgive me if I stepped on toes...I'm forever the devil's advocate as I believe in asking questions in order to learn.

You, the experts out there, will know best...?

[MikeM670]

Please forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I have more questions regarding this poisonous / unnatural products used.
1. In most of the viv building threads thus far I have seen people using foam etc to construct their backgrounds, why now is it a problem?
2. Yes, natural products, such as clay, would most probably be more pleasing to us, maybe even to the frogs in some way, but would it be practical?
3. If we can mimic nature so well, by using these synthetic products, that our animals are breeding (a sign of them being happy), shouldn't we then rather compliment ourselves. As we would never be Mother Nature, we can always strive to get as close as possible - but is the truth not that we will never be as perfect?
4. Aesthetically our vivs should be pleasing as that sparks the interest to keep one going, but as we are trying to help Mother Nature along, our vivs should also be practical, no?

Forgive me if I stepped on toes...I'm forever the devil's advocate as I believe in asking questions in order to learn.

You, the experts out there, will know best...?

Well first of all I'm no expert! I've learned or stolen most techniques from others here and from the net. Also you never gonna step on mine or anyone else's toes by asking questions. Well maybe clownonfire's and that is because he has really big feet!

Its not that things like spray foam, building construction sheet foam, silicone is toxic for the frogs. If it was we would never use it. Once fully cured these materials are probably inert for all practical purposes. I will continue to use all those as options for vivarium builds. I think the talk sorta gravitated to more natural products to try or use. I can tell you right now that the 10 gallon tank I am working on has a clay background and it sure is heavy. I doubt one could use it for really large builds unless you planned on never moving it to a new location. So in that case the use of foam is a better choice as it really is much lighter.

I'm all for mimicking the look of nature. Part of the enjoyment I receive from this is watching the frogs in a natural looking environment. It is very pleasing and IMHO shows off the frogs in a much better light!