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Thread: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

  1. #1
    Shorte85
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    Default RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Hello everyone!

    Since Tuesday, I have gotten my very first set of red eye tree frogs. One happen to perish though, but one is still alive. I am uncertain as to why one perished, but I am working very hard to keep one comfortable.

    Questions I have:

    1. Do RETFs turn dark at night? My frog seems to be bright green during the day while it is sleeping and turns a dark green at night when he's roaming around for a few minutes.

    2. How active are they usually at night? The reason I'm asking is because he seems to move maybe once or twice and then that's about it.

    3. I've had some trouble trying to keep the temp in the exo terra tank that I have in the right (safe zone). During the day I have a sun glow 25w bulb to keep the tank temp up, and then at night I switch that out to a moonlight 50w bulb to keep the temp warm but not as warm as during the day. If I don't have the moonlight bulb on the tank temp drops drastically (dangerously too low). I'm wracking my brains as to what else to do for the temp issues. I was going to buy the exo terra wave heater, but was told that it could burn the frogs? However, if it is covered with cocoa fiber and wood chips it should be alright right? But if I don't get the wave heater, will it be okay what I am doing? However, I just feel like the moonlight light bulb is disturbing the frog. I don't know what to do.

    I believe the only main concern I have is the temp issue in the tank. Other than that I think the frog has been eating because today I didn't see any signs of crickets.

    Any tips and questions, or anything would be appreciated. Thanks!

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  3. #2
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I hate to double post, but I just wanted to let you know that I have just turned off the moonlight light bulb because earlier I had it off for a little while to see if he'd wake up and he did. I figured maybe it was just not his time to wake up which was when the moonlight light got turned on. So I turned the moonlight light off just like 2 minutes ago to see if he wakes up or something, I just feel bad because I know that RETFs are nocturnal and I don't know what else to do. I don't know what else to do because if I don't keep the moonlight light on the tank temp goes back down which is too low for him and if I keep it on he doesn't roam around like he should. So frustrating!

    I don't know what to do... Grr!

  4. #3
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Welcome.
    First thing would be to let the new frog settle in.... this could sometimes take a month.
    They are night time active and usually only in the dark although they are known to become more active just before dark once they are use to you.

    They will change from dark to light and back and usually are bright green while sleeping. Turning dark is fine and I have one now dark and one bright as can be and its midnight.
    Like I stated, let the new frog relax, get comfortable and become trusting.

    Don't handle unless needed or for inspection. Change water daily, mist with treated water twice daily to keep humidity up, and make sure there are places to climb and feel hidden such as on big leaves.

    I have a snake plant that mine always sleep on and usually hide on the back side to stay are out of view.


    Feel free to ask more questions too.
    Good luck and ask when you have questions.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
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    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Is part of your top covered or is it open for heat to escape?

    If a full screen top, cover 1/2 to see if that will help keep temps.

    If your room is 68-70 degrees then your temps won't drop below that in the enclosure so hats fine.
    You can use a undertank heater on the side of the tank to provide heat too.

    They won't move around a ton and usually just settle in for a place to watch for food or to close their eyes and relax.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  6. #5
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Quote Originally Posted by DonLisk View Post
    Welcome.
    First thing would be to let the new frog settle in.... this could sometimes take a month.
    They are night time active and usually only in the dark although they are known to become more active just before dark once they are use to you.

    They will change from dark to light and back and usually are bright green while sleeping. Turning dark is fine and I have one now dark and one bright as can be and its midnight.
    Like I stated, let the new frog relax, get comfortable and become trusting.

    Don't handle unless needed or for inspection. Change water daily, mist with treated water twice daily to keep humidity up, and make sure there are places to climb and feel hidden such as on big leaves.

    I have a snake plant that mine always sleep on and usually hide on the back side to stay are out of view.


    Feel free to ask more questions too.
    Good luck and ask when you have questions.
    Thanks for getting back with me. I haven't been messing with it, except been checking on it frequently because of losing one already I am just so worried about losing this one as well. But he seems to be doing alright so far. I did handle him earlier today but it wasn't really to handle him but to transfer him from terra to a dish so that I could rearrange the terra because I need to figure out a way to get the wood chips in the back of the tank. But that was a while ago today and it didn't take long because I didn't want him stressing. At night the tank for some reason tends to drop temp. Not exactly sure why, but that is why I bought a moonlight bulb to help with that but if that is on he sleeps and when it is off he is awake. I don't know what to do about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonLisk View Post
    Is part of your top covered or is it open for heat to escape?

    If a full screen top, cover 1/2 to see if that will help keep temps.

    If your room is 68-70 degrees then your temps won't drop below that in the enclosure so hats fine.
    You can use a undertank heater on the side of the tank to provide heat too.

    They won't move around a ton and usually just settle in for a place to watch for food or to close their eyes and relax.
    I have heard of the trick of putting saran wrap on the top half of the tank where it is screen so keep the humidity up and heat in the tank. It seems to work for humidity, but for some reason it doesn't seem to help with the temp. I mean towards the top of the tank is warm but at the bottom it is a little chilly, but not super cold. I do keep the frog misted a couple times a day when I see that he looks a bit dry.

    Thanks for replying, I appreciate it.

  7. #6
    100+ Post Member Kisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I don't keep Red Eyes, but I thought I could provide a little insight as I do keep two White's Tree Frogs and two Tiger-Legged Monkey Frogs. The former are close to the size and care requirements for Red Eyes.

    First off, sorry about one of your frogs passing. Do you think you could provide a little more detail on this so we can better help you? If you're first frog died in the tank or the vicinity of the other frog it could be harmful, this is just curiosity and wanting for your second frog's well being, I'm not trying to be nosey.

    Secondly, you can place a heater on the bottom or side of the tank: as long as the wattage is right and the heater itself doesn't feel too hot to the touch it should not harm your frogs. I use heaters on all three of my tanks to great success. On the side it can create a heat gradient so that your frog can choose how warm is wants to be: My baby WTF sometimes climbs onto the wall where I placed the heater and sleeps for the rest of the day if he gets too cold. If placed under the tank it will usually raise the overall heat in the tank and make your tank warmer on the bottom half, which as you said above is a small problem.

    What size is your tank? That could help other members and myself to help you, so that we know how large a space you're attempting to heat, also what kind of light fixture are you using? Is it a compact top?

    On colder days I have also tried restricting the ventilation in my tank but I'm not sure how well it worked. None of my frogs seemed to change when I did this, so I don't know if it raised the temperature or not, but it gave me a little peace of mind.

    Oh, and what kind of thermometer are you using? This could be a determining factor in figuring out what's wrong with your heat, I've had broken thermometers/hygrometers before and it really complicated things.

    Another thing you could do is post your location in your profile so people who live in your area can give you pointers one what they do when they have trouble heating their vivs. I'm sorry if you did post it and I didn't see it, I just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't.

    I hope some of this has helped you. D:
    0.0.2 Litoria caerulea
    --------------------------------------
    "The gallows are no place for the stubborn//Just you and your lover as a dark souvenir" - Bad Books, Pytor

  8. #7
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Thanks for getting back with me Brit. I'm sorry too about the passing of the other frog, and that's why I'm trying really hard to keep this one happy and comfortable if at all possible. The one that perished seemed to be fine, I mean it was more active than the one I have now and moving around the night it had perished. Woke up the next day and it was upside down on the bottom of the tank. Not sure what happened.

    I do have a large leaf for it to either crawl on top of, or hide under neath, a somewhat medium/large heavy drift wood type thing that I have in there for him to crawl on, along with a stick and a few other plants. Once I get things a little more situated as far as temp goes I plan on buying more better realistic looking plants. Cocoa fiber on the bottom with wood chips layering on top of that which I keep nice and wet not soaked, but wet to help with the humidity.

    By the way before I forget (ha, been a long day and night) I live in Kimball, Michigan - where the weather is unknown on some days ha ha ha if you live or know Michigan, you know what I mean. lol

    I have both a Hygo and Thermometer, Thermometer is one of those ones that stick on the side of the tank and then I just bought yesterday a regular aquarium thermometer to get a second opinion on temperature of the tank. My house temp is in the range of 70-73 F. Right now there are no lights or heaters on the tank and it reads: 70 on the thermo stick, but the regular mercury thermometer reads just below 70F. Humidity right now is 80% probably because the heat (light) isn't on so it's not soaking up or evaporating the water.

    The exo terra tank I have is one of the medium tall rainforest type tanks. Has the two doors on the front, full screen on top and a hood for light source. During the day I use a sun glow light bulb 25w, and also a exo terra 5.0 uv light bulb along with it. Last night I tried using what was called a NightLight Reptic Light Bulb, which was red and it seemed to keep the tank "too" hot for the terra so we took that out. Today we went and bought another different light bulb called Moonlight Light Bulb, which is 50w and it seems to be alright but if I put it on the frog doesn't seem to wake up unless it is dark. The moonlight light doesn't give off a very bright light, it's actually pretty dim. So I turned that off for a while so he could roam and do his thing in the tank which he did. I figured before I go to bed tonight (which I'm a night own anyways) I could turn the moonlight back on before going to bed to keep the temp up. Humidity I'm not too worried about, it's more the temp than anything really.

    I figured out the size of my tank which is: 24” x 18” x 36” (WxDxH).

    I've also been thinking about getting a digital thermometer/humidity reader, however I've already put so much money into this frog as it is that I want to try and figure this out before putting anymore money into it. I know that may sound bad, but I've already put at least $300 maybe a little more on this frog and that's including tank, plants, and more.

    Hope what I have given which is a little more in depth will help as to what I need to figure out. I appreciate any help and the help given so far.

  9. #8
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    68 to 70 degrees is fine for your night temps, and as Brit said, putting a small heat pad on one side of the tank will give them a choice of how warm they want to be.

    You viv should have a day to night temp change and yours sounds fine at the temps you stated.
    You don't want colder than 68 and that is where the heat pad will come into play.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  10. #9
    100+ Post Member Kisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Ok I see, thanks for the info that was very helpful. Don's right your temps sound fine to me, the thing I'm worried about is the fact that the frog won't wake up unless the moonlight is out...

    Did you get there frogs from a pet store or a breeder? The reason I ask this is because I use Exo Terra Night Glo lights in both of my vivarium and have not had this problem. These lights are supposed to simulate actual moonlight and don't give off enough light for the frogs to think that it's day time...very strange.

    If you're frog grew up in a pet shop where they turned the lights off completely at night then the moonlight may be confusing, but other than that I can't think of anything that could be causing this situation. Maybe continue to do what you're doing, turn off the light when the frogs are supposed to wake up, let it roam around and a little later turn the light back on. Watch it closely, if it goes back to sleep when the light is back on it'll be hard for you to train it to think that the bulb is moonlight so...I suggest getting a small tank heater to healp with the heat and leave the lights out of it. Also be careful, I have an Exo Terra Medium with a hood light like the one described and it only takes 26w bulbs in each slot, I wouldn't go over that wattage or the lamp could blow out, which obviously would be bad.

    Now I want to address the wood chips...can these fit into your frogs mouths? If so I would say remove them immediately. It is very possible that one of the frogs was hunting and accidently ate one of these wood-chips and either choked or died from impaction. We warn when building vivs not to use wood chips or small stones (that can fit in your frog's mouth like gravel) because if eaten they can prove fatal. I would remove the wood chips anyway, even if they can't fit inside the frog's mouth, just in case.

    Frogs are an expensive hobby my friend...I have four and I believe I have spent over $500, maybe closer to $700-$1000 on setting everything up and making them comfortable. If you're not ready for the expenses, frogs probably aren't for you. Though keep in mind I didn't do my set ups the cheap and easy way, I unknowingly went the harder route. Not to mention that when I bought my first frog he was very ill and I had to spend over $100 on vet bills and medication to keep him alive. He made it through though, so I'm grateful for that.

    I hope some of this has helped you, pictures of your set up would also be really helpful, so I can see the size of the wood chips and the placing of the hides and everything else. You have a small water dish in the viv with them right? All tree frogs need a water source, they drink through their skin after all. XD
    0.0.2 Litoria caerulea
    --------------------------------------
    "The gallows are no place for the stubborn//Just you and your lover as a dark souvenir" - Bad Books, Pytor

  11. #10
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Hello Don and Brit, thanks for getting back with me. I appreciate it!

    Well, I took a few pictures for you of the terra and I hope that helps out. As far the frog that died, I know it didn't die of a accidental ingestion of wood chips because I didn't have any in the tank at the time. The only thing I had in the tank was cocoa fiber and a piece of brown paper towel at the bottom wet because I didn't exactly know if the cocoa fiber was going to stick to the frogs or not if they happen to roam on the floor. So the wood chips came in after the other frog died. Also the pet store I got the wood chips from said that it should be alright to use. I'm so confused because it seems like I keep getting mixed information as to what is good for the frogs and etc. Kind of frustrating if you ask me. lol

    Checked the hood and yep, you were right Brit. Right now I just have a 25w sun glow in there and a 5.0 uv reptic bulb on the other side which I'm not sure the wattage is for that, I could probably read what it is on the exo terra site. But right this minute I do not know that answer. I'm thinking about taking it out to see how the sun glow bulb by itself does and see if it keeps the temp up. But not sure how it will do on it's own as far as the sun glow 25w.

    As far as the frogs, I was told they are about a year old and they are wild caught but before the store got them the captor had them for a month and had them doing well. They had three of them, and I bought two and that is when I brought them home and one died and the other is doing great so far. Now as far as how the person housed them when s/he had them for about a month is beyond me. I think I'll probably just do what I did last night. Turn the moonlight on just before I go to bed to keep the temps leveling out at night.

    Here are some pictures of the viv setup I have going on. Also, sorry but some of the pictures are sideways, lol.... If you break your neck, don't hurt me. LOL
















    Also I took a picture of him roaming around, him and I were having a very funny staring contest. I had fun, ha! But here is a picture, it's a bit dark.... But you can definitely still see him and his red eyes. lol



    Hope all this helps, pictures and all.

  12. #11
    bshmerlie
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I would definately get rid of the wood chips they could cause a problem if ingested. They are kind of haphazard when then lunge at food. I use cricket bowls which help to avoid them ingesting anything else.

  13. #12
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I'm almost wondering if I should feed him outside of the tank just to be sure he is eating and what not, I have no doubt he isn't eating but I just also do not like the crickets being in the tank pooping all over and what not or dying and not seeing where they are dying off at if that makes sense.

    I guess my thing is, how come the store I got the frog from said that wood chips would be fine to use? I'm a little confused by this.

    EDIT UPDATE: I was just thinking, if I were to go ahead and feed him in a dish outside of his tank and not inside his tank would it be alright to leave the wood chips in the tank? I am just worried that if I keep messing with the tank after he's just getting warmed up to his new surroundings that I'm going to stress him out and etc. So I just thought I'd ask about that, I've been reading other posts and what not and see that others tend to feed their frogs outside of the viv to be sure that they are eating and what not. Would this be something I could do when I go to feed him tonight?

  14. #13
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I would replace the wood chips with plantation soil (found at pet stores) and add a few live plants and vines. They love to be up high and feel hidden.

    I feed mine from a bowl and the crickets can'tt jump out so uneaten crickets can be just dumped back into the cricket keeper. The less you handle the frog the less stress you create for him.

    If you sticking with fake plants then add a few hanging leafy vines from the top down so he can go on and behind them. Check out some of the photo albums of members to get some ideas on both planted and fake leaf use.

    Brit just put together a beautiful viv so check her's put.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  15. #14
    Leefrogs
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I wouldn't be handling a WC frog at all, especially fir daily feeding. What she's revering to is a cricket bowl. A glass bowl, big enough for the frog to get in and out of, fill it with crickets and they can't get out. Greanted some may jump out, but rarely. Dig substrate so bowl can sit almost level. Especially at tge begining, your frog may not understand and get stressed. Remove the bowl after frog eats. Check bowl for any chipped edges and etc.

    The holder of your frog probably had them in a opaque plastic bin, where they can't see out, and u should cover all sides of your viv for atleast a month. Noise from a house is stressful enough, much less seeing what's making the noise. Your dead frog was probably trying to make a nighttime escape and fell, breaking it's back.

  16. #15
    bshmerlie
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I would definately not feed your wild caught frog outside his enclosure. In the wild the are in constant fear of being eaten. They are very cautious and will seek cover of plants and leaves if they suspect danger. In a very confined habitat it is important to give him as many leafy hiding places you can...and hopefully he will eventually see you as the cricket god and not a huge predator that he must think you to be right now. If you insist on keeping the wood chips then try the cricket bowl to avoid any potential issues. It is a simple glass bowl about three inches by an inch and a half deep. The crickets will not jump out nor will they roam the enclosure and get lost. I use a small glass dipping sauce bowl. That also allows you to monitor how many crickets he is eating.

  17. #16
    Shorte85
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    I guess my thing is, is will the frog be okay on cocoa fiber because I've been told that they are okay on cocoa fiber? A block which it expands, almost acting as if it is soil but really isn't. I just didn't know if it would stick to the frog like crazy or if the frog would rather have that as the ground than wood chips.

  18. #17
    100+ Post Member Kisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Unfortunately pet stores are not always trustworthy with information or pets, so you cannot always trust what they say. It was good of you to come to the forum and post this thread because I'm sure any more information you were given at this store could be harmful to your frogs.

    I feed my WTF outside of his viv because of his terrible eyesight and a few other factors, but like Ginger said it probably won't be beneficial if you handle a wild caught frog any more than necessary. If your other frog was wild caught that could be the reason he passed, often wild caught animals have ingested parasites or have come to the store with harmful bacteria, their sick when you buy them. Another big factor with wild caught specimens is the stress factor. This problem increases with Wild Caught animals because they are not used to human intervention and are prone to become over stressed when forced into a smaller environment than they're used to.

    I suggest in the future not buying any wild caught animals unless you have to, it really is not a beneficial situation for you or the frog. I am entirely against the WC population of frogs and all animals in general, personally I find it a form of torture. Not that I'm condemning you, if you were misinformed by the store than it is not your fault, I just wanted to get my opinion out there.
    0.0.2 Litoria caerulea
    --------------------------------------
    "The gallows are no place for the stubborn//Just you and your lover as a dark souvenir" - Bad Books, Pytor

  19. #18
    100+ Post Member Kisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Just a quick update for you Shorte, our moderator Cheri owns several Red Eyes and just informed me that hers will not wake up and move around until it's pitch black in their viv so maybe the moonlight isn't the best idea for you right now. My frogs feel comfortable enough at night with the moonlights on to move about but it may not be the same with Red Eyes. How are things going by the way?
    0.0.2 Litoria caerulea
    --------------------------------------
    "The gallows are no place for the stubborn//Just you and your lover as a dark souvenir" - Bad Books, Pytor

  20. #19
    Delilah and Sampson
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    Default Re: RETF: Turns dark at night? And other qustions...

    Sorry if someone has already written this but I keep my whites warm with a fish tank heater in the water tank side of my tank. The side itself is way too deep so I put LARGE rocks in and covered the heater. As long as you keep the heater completely submerged you should be fine. My frogs LOVE sitting on top of the rocks and sunbathing on the warm rocks under the warm light globe. Haha gotta love em. The temp of my tank is always above 20 degrees Celsius at night thanks to the water heater and is about 21 during the day thanks to my UV light globe. Hope my reply wasn't too late!
    D and S

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