They have arrived! Phyllomedusa Tomopterna!

[Kisa]

No I wasn't trying to imply hon that you were dissatisfied with them at all... I could tell thru your multipul mentionings of how happy you were that you are indeed happy... it was a joke playing on that... sorry. I need to remember sarcasm doesn't come off so well in text.

Oh nononono, I got the sarcasm, don't worry it's no fault of yours. I was in a terrible mood last night is all and I was having trouble responding to your joke but I wanted to make sure you knew I read it? It's hard to explain...but I feel better now. Sorry about the mixup. ><

[Kisa]

On the seizure situation. Can anyone give me a more clear insight into this? Was it in fact a survival method that I've jst never heard of before or is he sick or hurt? I'm entertaining the possibility that he was trying to escape from the box and I was preventing it so when he fell back into the water he was so overwhelmed that the stress manifested in some sort of seizure? That goes along with the survival technique though...

If anyone has any insight please let me know, I'm so freaked out after having to see him like that I need some peace of mind.

[Dog Shrink]

Seizures are usually some sort of electrical misfiring in the brain usually brought on by a chemical imbalance and is usually genetically inherited... is it a chance it could be a seizure... I can't say I don't know enough about frog physiology to guess. Blunt trauma can also bring on a seizure but I doubt you traumatized your frog. Could it have been spasms to mimic death throws as a defense mechnism... much more likely imo...

[Kisa]

Seizures are usually some sort of electrical misfiring in the brain usually brought on by a chemical imbalance and is usually genetically inherited... is it a chance it could be a seizure... I can't say I don't know enough about frog physiology to guess. Blunt trauma can also bring on a seizure but I doubt you traumatized your frog. Could it have been spasms to mimic death throws as a defense mechnism... much more likely imo...

That's what I'm hoping too. My friend who was with me when it happened said that it was probably just a defense mechanism, given that he was fine as soon as I touched him and "woke him up". It's still really scary, especially because I was holding him right before it happened...I can't help but feel responsible.

[Ebony]

Kisa..I think its a defence thing. Ive seen it happen to a friends frog and its always when she has desturbed it and picked it up. It seizured off an on for the first year she had it. Its now two years old and doing fine.

[Kisa]

Kisa..I think its a defence think. Ive seen it happen to a friends frog and its always when she has desturbed it and picked it up. It seizured off an on for the first year she had it. Its now two years old and doing fine.

Thanks for the info Ebony it makes me feel ten times better. I'm glad that others have experienced the same thing as me with success. Thanks. ><

I've seen Artemis eat at least one cricket with my own two eyes, so I think she's adjusting much better than Apollo. I took him out last night to check on him because I noticed he was laying weird and wanted to make sure he wasn't in a coma or something and when he woke up he freaked out and tried to escape from my hands. I put him back in the viv right away, and I had taken him out on a leaf so that I didn't have to touch him, but with him freaking out I had to cup my hands around his body to keep him from jumping. I put him back in the viv, he'd been out for no longer then 30 seconds, and he went right to sleep. I don't know if he's eating or even interested in food. I want to give him more time but I'm scared.

Is there a point at which a frog absolutely needs food and I have to "force" him? I've had them for 8 days now and have seen no feces or prolonged movement, hunting or otherwise, from Apollo. I'm thinking about taking him out and placing him in the carrier with a few crickets to see if he's interested but I don't want to traumatize him even more. Should I wait?

[Leefrogs]

would tweezer feed first before moving him into a carrier . Just try to immitate path of prey, try to think cricket,..... LOL

[Kisa]

would tweezer feed first before moving him into a carrier . Just try to immitate path of prey, try to think cricket,..... LOL

Haha good suggestions Ginger but unfortunately the tongs I have are way too big for the mini crickets I have to feed the Tomops, they're quite small right now, only about 1 inch each, though Artemis is a little bigger than Apollo, naturally. The carrier may be my only course of action. D:

[Leefrogs]

I feed pretty small crix to opal, I dust crix in the bag they come in, they want out of there and almost climb on my tweezers. I grab a leg, if it breaks off by them trying to jump free, they're less likely to do it on their last leg... No pun intended. U just gotta get one down him so u know he's a feeder, u can tell by how eager he is. If he's willing to thong feed at all. Each species is different, and every frog too I guess. but I think it's worth a try

[Kisa]

I feed pretty small crix to opal, I dust crix in the bag they come in, they want out of there and almost climb on my tweezers. I grab a leg, if it breaks off by them trying to jump free, they're less likely to do it on their last leg... No pun intended. U just gotta get one down him so u know he's a feeder, u can tell by how eager he is. If he's willing to thong feed at all. Each species is different, and every frog too I guess. but I think it's worth a try

This is very true Ginger, maybe I could give it a try. As long as I can get ahold of the cricket it should work out.

[Kisa]

So just a small update for anyone whose interested.

I just got off the phone with Mike Novy, I wanted to let him know what had happened with Apollo and see if he could provide any insight into the situation. All seems to be well. He wasn't worried about the little..."seizure" (not sure what else to call it) at all once I described the story to him, he said he had seen some Red Eyes and Clowns do it before, so I shouldn't be too worried. He also told me that Tomops are pretty lazy all around and that their behavior (with getting up, shifting positions and moving only to fall asleep somewhere else) is completely normal and that they aren't really active hunters so unless I start seeing either frog loose weight I should have anything to worry about. He even gave me a little advice on how to get the little guy to call, so I'll try that out tonight and update this thread with any videos or pictures I can get of him doing so.

So glad that there is nothing wrong (presumably) and I can get back to be excited about getting to own these beautiful and unique animals. ^ ^

Thanks to everyone for all their advice and support, I was really worried about this, but so far I think I can say the danger has passed...for now. >> XD; Just kidding.

[Ebony]

Hi Kisa, Im very glad to hear that every thing is OK. I think your frogs are very lucky you are there keeper as you take such good care of them.

[Kisa]

Hi Kisa, Im very glad to hear that every thing is OK. I think your frogs are very lucky you are there keeper as you take such good care of them.

Thank you so much Ebony, that means a lot coming from you. I would hate it if I hurt my frogs in any way, be it too small tank, feedings, messed up eyes (my poor Brucey, I'm still beaten up about that... ), or seizures. >>

But seriously, thanks, I want to provide them all with the best home I can. ><

Just a quick update: I checked on the two Tomops after lights out and Artemis was awake as soon as it was dark while Apollo remained stationary on his leaf where he has been all day. I'll check on him once more to see if he's moved or woken up, hopefully he'll come around soon, I really wanna see him eat and hear his call. ><

[Tony]

The more you mess with him the more trouble you will have. Constant handling, poking and prodding, etc. are very stressful and stress will kill Phyllomedusines faster than nearly any other family of frogs.

[Kisa]

The more you mess with him the more trouble you will have. Constant handling, poking and prodding, etc. are very stressful and stress will kill Phyllomedusines faster than nearly any other family of frogs.

Thank you for the insight Tony. I have left little Apollo alone since the last time I checked on him (I.e. "handled" him) and do not plan on bringing him out of the viv again unless I absolutely have to. I have even recovered the side of the tank that I left open to make him feel more secure and have limited my checks to once in the morning when I change the water and water the plants with the occasional misting, and once at night at lights out. Sometimes I peak in on them one more time before bed, but I have been trying to keep away. I want them both to adjust well and be happy, I'm trying very hard to be the best frog mommy I can be.

[bshmerlie]

When I got my first red eye Waldo I had him in the same enclosure for about a year. He was active and ate well. Then one day I decided to redecorate his tank. I moved him to a temp tank and spent about a week redoing his permanent tank. When I put him back in he hunkered down on a leaf and went to sleep. I swear he didn't move or eat for about a month. I got nervous and covered all sides of the tank, changed his water every morning even though it didn't look like it had been used and put new crickets in his cricket bowl every night. Then about a month later he snapped out of it and went back to his normal routine. Give your frogs time to adjust. Cover the sides of their tank as you're doing and keep it quiet and dark for them. My red eyes wont wake up at all unless it is pitch black and they definately don't wake up if there is a moonlight bulb on. Once they're awake moving around I can have a little blue led light on to observe them. Remember all we can do for our frogs is provide them the proper environment for them and feed them regularly. The rest is up to them. Just make sure your tank conditions are exactly as Mike has reccomended and then give them time to settle in. My own frog didn't move for a month after just a home remodel. Your guys have been boxed up, bounced around in shipping and then put into a different home. They will be fine just give them time.

[Kisa]

When I got my first red eye Waldo I had him in the same enclosure for about a year. He was active and ate well. Then one day I decided to redecorate his tank. I moved him to a temp tank and spent about a week redoing his permanent tank. When I put him back in he hunkered down on a leaf and went to sleep. I swear he didn't move or eat for about a month. I got nervous and covered all sides of the tank, changed his water every morning even though it didn't look like it had been used and put new crickets in his cricket bowl every night. Then about a month later he snapped out of it and went back to his normal routine. Give your frogs time to adjust. Cover the sides of their tank as you're doing and keep it quiet and dark for them. My red eyes wont wake up at all unless it is pitch black and they definately don't wake up if there is a moonlight bulb on. Once they're awake moving around I can have a little blue led light on to observe them. Remember all we can do for our frogs is provide them the proper environment for them and feed them regularly. The rest is up to them. Just make sure your tank conditions are exactly as Mike has reccomended and then give them time to settle in. My own frog didn't move for a month after just a home remodel. Your guys have been boxed up, bounced around in shipping and then put into a different home. They will be fine just give them time.

Thanks for your story Cheri, that makes me feel much better. >< I guess I'm just so impatient I can't wait until they've settled in and gotten used to me and their new home. They're such amazing creatures! Hiding them behind paper is just hard for me because their so beautiful and unique! >< But I will leave the paper up and give them time, healthy and happy frogs are what I want, and I intend to hold back until I'm sure that's what I have!

[Kisa]

I have some good news everyone!

The night before last, when I posted that I was still worried about little Apollo, I noticed that he was a darker green color, it seemed like there was an agitated air coming off of him, where as Artemis has seemed to have settled in (not all the way, but at least a little) and was a beautiful light sea foamy green. Seeing that Apollo was not doing well worried me, but I stuck to my guns and left him be all day long, I barely even peaked at him. Once in the morning when I noticed his coloration and once before bed time. He hadn't moved all that night or the next day. Artemis was up right after lights out, which is great news, it shows me that she's starting to get used to her new environment and feel more comfortable. Also I have seen her eat with my own two eyes, and that tells me she has an appetite.

Well yesterday morning I checked on Mr. Grumpy Apollo and noticed his color was slightly lighter and he seemed to be sleeping more deeply, with a regular breathing pattern (I notice these things...). And that night (last night) he actually got up and explored! His color had lightened to match Artemis's and I saw him awake and climbing! This is so exciting for me, I was worried it would take him longer to bounce back from his little episode. I haven't seen him eat yet, but I am confident that he's coming around. Today his color is the same pretty seafoam and he's sleeping comfortably back in his new spot on the pothos, up high and next to the light, while his female counter part is in her designated spot on the ground where she was first introduced.

Sorry if this news is trivial, it's important to me and I just wanted to let everyone know things are looking up!

Thanks for reading/caring guys, it helps. ^ ^

[bshmerlie]

As far as coloring goes my red eyes are darker green at night and bright green in the day while they sleep.

[Kisa]

As far as coloring goes my red eyes are darker green at night and bright green in the day while they sleep.

I think that may be the case with the Tomops too. Apollo had been dark green all day and night following the incident with the honey water and I think this showed his irritation/uncomfortableness. Red Eyes and Tiger Legs seem pretty similar so far. XD

Oh, and I just remembered. There was another member who started a thread about their Red Eye, I believe you've seen it, where one of them mysteriously died and the other wouldn't wake up at night with the moonlight bulb on. I didn't know that it was a trait of the frog and told them to try and see if they could get the frog used to the moonlight, I'll go and correct my mistake. My Tomops seem not to mind the moonlight on at night, Artemis was waking up and moving around with it on a about a week ago and now Apollo does as well so I think they're used to it. And of course W T F s have no problems with is either, both of mine are up and about even if I leave a lamp on in the room nearby (with just a low glow so I don't disturb the Tomops either). Is there a reason Red Eyes won't become active if there's even a hint of light? I'm guessing it has something to do with their...Red Eyes. XD;