Terry I need your help - 911 - new piebald diseased

[Jenste]

Harvey, the new piebald who I got yesterday has an unknown disease and I fear Chythrid - - picture attached

When he arrived yesterday (8 hours late) he was sluggish, but I thought it was from being sent to me from Florida and the stress of the trip. His body temp was very cold and I spent over an hour slowly acclimating him to warmer water. Once he was acclimate I left him be and didn't pester him too much last night so he could settle - in the new tank he spent most of the evening in the corner perched near the filter at the water line in the back.

got home from work, he was now at the front of the tank and I saw his belly clearly for the first time - - I thought I was going to die.




lethargic, red and green discoloration on stomach, tattered shedding.

Contacted Xenopus (supplier) - they think it is ammonia burns from shipping - does not look like any ammonia burn I have ever seen.

[Dog Shrink]

Awwww I Hope it isn't what you suspect... I have read how bad that can be. I hope he turns out ok. So sorry you're going thru this

[poison beauties]

Did you test the water he came in? And have you tested for and has the previous owner tested their collection for chytrid?

Michael

[Jenste]

when shipping ACF they don't come in water - - just lightly damp sponge material.


I don't own a test for Chythrid nor did I know one was available commercially -
and Xenopus has not replied to my email yet - sent them the picture of the frog.

I have ordered from this particular company 5 times previously without mishap -

[poison beauties]

A good track record with them will atleast help. But others I know squeeze the water out of the moss and sponges they are shipped with to test as a precaution when their's come in. Just to hold a little ground should it be the fault of the shipper.

Michael

[tgampper]

Hi Jen:

Wow! It looks like a bacterial infection, possibly red leg. Are you using Lymnozyme? That will help on everyday prevention of infections.

Treatment: (Tetracycline oral: 1mg/5g body weight for 5 days).Use salt at a concentration of 100 mM and add 100 micrograms per ml oxytetracycline to the water for a week. Change the water every day. Isolate infected animals and all animals it had contact with. Disinfect all nets and tanks.

[tgampper]

Clawed frogs are carriers of chytrid, so we can rule out that. Chytrid appears as small pimples or "zits" on the frogs skin.

[poison beauties]

Chytrid kills many frogs before symptoms of the pimples show. But an infection does look like the issue.
I do hope you at least quarantined the frog separate from your others.

Michael

[Jenste]

have been pouring over the internet since the posting began - - more and more pictures seem to resemble ammonia burns now that I have some to compare to - -

opinions?


And any and all items he came into contact with are currently being sterilized.

[poison beauties]

You should contact a vet like Dr, David Frye that deals with Amphibian related issues. He may be able to help.

Michael

[tgampper]

have been pouring over the internet since the posting began - - more and more pictures seem to resemble ammonia burns now that I have some to compare to - -

opinions?


And any and all items he came into contact with are currently being sterilized.

Ammonia burns? I'm learning something new every day. It would depend on how quickly the wounds developed. Of course, diseases do take time but can manifest itself fairly quickly. I would do an ammonia test, you can get the strips at a tropical fish store. Even though, the wounds may not be disease related, it does leave the frog with a weakened immune system and a secondary bacterial or fungal infection may be right around the corner. I don't think it would hurt to use tetracycline just in case. Good luck and I hope all goes well.

[Jenste]

actually the strips are notoriously incorrect - - for all tank keepers the API Liquid master test kit is best - -

My tanks have all been fully cycled - either "fishless cycling method" or through seeding - -

(google the Nitrogen cycle)

I always keep my frog in filtered tanks due to the risk of ammonia (waste) building up in the water - - clean water is key for a healthy environment!

It is important to cycle the tank fully - - just tossing in a filter does nothing if there is no beneficial bacteria colony in the filter media

[Kurt]

I am pretty sure Xenopus are immune to chytridiomycosis.

[tgampper]

I found some interesting items concerning clawed frogs and ammonia:

Xenopus can tolerate much higher ammonia levels than fish. High ammonia levels in the water is very stressful and inhibit ammonia excretion which causes the frog to change to ureotelic excretion. Ammonia levels should be maintained below 0.50 mg/L and NH3 below 0.02 mg/L.

Also, water temperature has a profound effect on water quality. Dissolved oxygen levels decrease as water temperature increases. Also, unionized ammonia (very toxic to Xenopus) levels increase as water temperature increases.

It is ideal to keep Xenopus at a water temperature of 21(C) or 70(F) with a pH of 7.0. Temperatures exceeding 30(C) or 86(F) are lethal. In fact, keeping temperatures above 24(C) or 75(F) will make it difficult to keep unionized ammonia (NH3) below optimal levels.

[Dog Shrink]

Stupid beginner question here but what was the frog shipped in? Type of substrait? Is it possible for him to have an allergic reaction to his shipping substrait?

[Jenste]

I found some interesting items concerning clawed frogs and ammonia:

Xenopus can tolerate much higher ammonia levels than fish. High ammonia levels in the water is very stressful and inhibit ammonia excretion which causes the frog to change to ureotelic excretion. Ammonia levels should be maintained below 0.50 mg/L and NH3 below 0.02 mg/L.

Also, water temperature has a profound effect on water quality. Dissolved oxygen levels decrease as water temperature increases. Also, unionized ammonia (very toxic to Xenopus) levels increase as water temperature increases.

It is ideal to keep Xenopus at a water temperature of 21(C) or 70(F) with a pH of 7.0. Temperatures exceeding 30(C) or 86(F) are lethal. In fact, keeping temperatures above 24(C) or 75(F) will make it difficult to keep unionized ammonia (NH3) below optimal levels.

actually terry, when dealing with cycling a tank - ANY ammonia reading or nitrite reading means you do not have enough beneficial bacteria in the filter to cope with the amount of waste output by your stocking (whether fish or frogs)
a 0.50 reading for ammonia is quite alarming - - a dedicated tank keeper would immediately perform at least a 50% water change and then retest.

I start out as a fish keeper - this is where my tank maintenance back ground comes into play and how I first encountered the Nitrogen cycle - - I am on a few fish forums - - Tropical Fish Forum and FishLore - - and any newbie coming and asking how to set up a tank is immediately told about cycling - - exposing a live animal to any level of ammonia is just plain cruelty.

While yes, temperature does impact it by ways of speeding up bacterial growth - when cycling a tank and growing the bacteria colony prior to stocking the tank (Known as Fishless cycling) - this is beneficial. Most tropical tanks and definitely most saltwater tanks are easily kept above 75* with no harm whatsoever, provided the tank is cycled and therefore has a colony of bacteria that can handle the amount of ammonia being put out by the animal waste.

Again, for those that do test the water, the test strips are grossly inaccurate - best to use a liquid test kit. they go for about $30 in stores but are so worth it when maintaining a healthy tank. All of my tanks are filtered (and cycled prior to having a frog live in them) except for when I have tadpoles, but the newly morphed froglets do get moved into a cycled tank with a gentle mini filter designed for small or baby fish.

[Herpvet]

Harvey, the new piebald who I got yesterday has an unknown disease and I fear Chythrid - - picture attached

When he arrived yesterday (8 hours late) he was sluggish, but I thought it was from being sent to me from Florida and the stress of the trip. His body temp was very cold and I spent over an hour slowly acclimating him to warmer water. Once he was acclimate I left him be and didn't pester him too much last night so he could settle - in the new tank he spent most of the evening in the corner perched near the filter at the water line in the back.

got home from work, he was now at the front of the tank and I saw his belly clearly for the first time - - I thought I was going to die.

lethargic, red and green discoloration on stomach, tattered shedding.

Contacted Xenopus (supplier) - they think it is ammonia burns from shipping - does not look like any ammonia burn I have ever seen.

Hi,

I would have to say get this animal to a vet as soon as possible (if feasible) - regardless of the cause of the original lesion, generalised infection is very likely to result even if not present at the moment. Obviously go with what the vet says when they see it, but antimicrobial cover and probable anti-inflammatories look very necessary from here!

Xenopus are generally considered to be asymptomatic carriers of chytrid, although it's probably not impossible that an individual could break with clinical disease. It wouldn't be top of the list of differentials (possible causes) here from what I can see, but as I say a vet who can actually examine the animl is in a much better position to assess it and decide on an appropriate approach.

Hope you can get him sorted out.

Bruce.

[Jenste]

Well he is doing much much better!!! the ammonia burns are almost completely healed!!!
He is quite the wiggly one, so to take a clear photo of his tummy I had to put him in a critter keeper and take the photo from below.


Only the largest spot is left and nearly gone...the red and green horrible colorations have faded to an off-brown/red color.

[clownonfire]

Well he is doing much much better!!! the ammonia burns are almost completely healed!!!
He is quite the wiggly one, so to take a clear photo of his tummy I had to put him in a critter keeper and take the photo from below.


Only the largest spot is left and nearly gone...the red and green horrible colorations have faded to an off-brown/red color.

This is great news, Jenna. I am really happy for you and your frog.

[Dog Shrink]

WOW that looks Soooo much better. I'm glad he is healing up nicely for you. Congrats