Spikey bone growth on lip, wth?

[onedge30]

Picked up this frog at a huge discount. Have a feeling that as a baby may have had MBD. Due to abnormal head shape. I have had it for 3 weeks and it has doubled in weight. It looked just awful when I got it. The weird growth on its upper lip looked like just a bump, but now is looking more like a half sphere growing spikes thru the skin. It is attached to the upper jaw, it is not lose. I have pressed on the spikes to see if one would break off, nope. Take a look at the pictures. And there is a picture of the frogs normal side.

Thoughts would be very welcome. I have a local herp vet looking as well.

[Whistly]

Hi I wouldn't have a clue what it is and I think that frog's not too happy to have it. I have a question what's MBD?
Thanks Luke

[onedge30]

Metabolic bone disease

[jjmorton13]

That is a cool-looking lesion (not that is is cool for your frog). Looks like it could be anything from an abnormal bony growth, maybe as a result of early MBD, or fungal/bacterial granuloma. When reptiles/amphibians get bacterial and fungal infections, they produce hard, caseous puss, unlike mammals. It is less likely to be an infection like that if it is non-movable. I'm really interested to see how this turns out, and what your vet has to say. Good luck! Keep us updated!

[Dog Shrink]

Stupid question here but have you checked inside the frogs mouth for any anomalies, injuries, or obstructions, anything that might be protruding from the inside of the mouth cavity outward?

what kind of frog is it? African Bullfrog right?

[Malachi]

Is the jaw formed wrong? teeth?

[willtilian]

besides the growth everything else looks very healthy

[willtilian]

actaully looking at those pics, it almost looks like a bottle cap in his mouth

[onedge30]

Yes, everything inside the mouth looks normal. He is eating find and active. Yes, Giant African Bullfrog.

Ok, he sure was not happy, but here are a few more pictures. One of him front straight on. Others from inside his mouth.

[Dog Shrink]

That is really peculiar. The bony protrusion isn't invasive into the mouth cavity... only going outward from the face and not inward. Is there any chance this might be a bot fly larvae (or another invasive insect type parasite thing?) that has burrowed into his face? What are you doing to treat it? If you want to see if it is a parasite coat the area with something like petroleum jelly (since I don't think you can use rubbing alcohol on frogs) to suffocate whatever might be living in there then it will either back out (before it suffocates) or die and you can remove it. I have seen this happen a lot to rabbits so I'm not sure the protocol would be the same for amphibs... I'm still learning about them.

I'm curious, how could early MBD cause a bony growth this far into the animals growth cycl esp. if the MBD has been rectified? Excessive calcium growth to make up for the shortage when it was young?

Kind of on that same note tho... is there any chance it could be gout or psudogout? I know with pseudogout it is calcium deposits that will grow, insted of uric acid crystals, so it could present like a bony solid anchored protrusion but I thought it usually affected joints but if the face is made up of several bony plates it could be possible techinically. Here's a great link for more info http://www.triciaswaterdragon.com/gout.htm

http://www.cabi.org/cabdirect/FullTe...0093069421.pdf

[willtilian]

cauld it even be a rodent wound from the old owner?

[onedge30]

@Kel - I do not believe that it is any type of invasive parasite. There is no openings, puss or weeping fluids. The growth is completely solid and anchored to the bone.

MBD can have many weird affects long after. It changes all sorts of functions in the body. How nutrients are allotted. How the bone grows, bends, changes. Even affecting the nervous system.

Usually not in an excessive growth formation, but I don't know.

I do not believe it could be a gout formation. Gout is usually a collection of crystals at a joint. This joint usually has some type of blood flow to gather crystals.

@Will - It could be some type of old injury. No idea what would cause this type of formation.

[spencerburgo]

is there any scar tissue at all? possibly an old wound if the bone was damaged there is a chance it leaked calcium wich is how bones heal thereselves, strange one as they are protruding out like small spikes its a strange one for sure, at least the frog is in better hands now, good luck with it,

cheers spencer.................

[Dog Shrink]

Yes true gout is a uric crystal formation usually in joint cavities but PSUDOgout is a build up of calcium sometimes in the joint cavity or in areas of a joint or overlapping bone plates such as how the skull of people is made up of several bony plates, Last I knew there was still a lot of unknowns/debate with psudogout hich is why I tried to get a couple of reference points for you to read. Sometimes in advanced scenarios it can even start to affect the long bones of the leg, which is why I thought maybe psudogout since there was the issue with MBD at the young age which affects calcium absorption right (from what I gathered from your MBD statement), which technically then could lead to psudogout. I know from my readings on leopard geckos, under supplimenting with D3 and over supplimenting (or even regular supplimenting) with calcium has lead to bouts of psudogout.

I would love to see if this issue gets diagnosed/resolved... I love a good mystery.

[Eel Noob]

I think the spikes give it character. Name it Spikey

[onedge30]

No new news. Since it is not urgent, the vet is kinda looking around.

He is doing fine. I did name him, not Spikey. His name is Drake.

[jjmorton13]

No new news. Since it is not urgent, the vet is kinda looking around.

I'm curious about what the vet did for diagnostics - biopsy, radiographs, fine needle aspirate, blood work, etc?