New vivarium - Crowdsourcing on Frog Forum

[Leefrogs]

I have a mini peace lily, with blooms the size of littlest pinkie nail. As far as I can tell they come in 3 sizes. Orchid bloom will bend in viv and look awsome. There's a Jap painted fern that's kinda blue purple and green. But I'm not sure what zone it is. May need dormant period, anything over a zone 9 will do good in a viv.

[btcope]

Okay ... whew, this is going to be fun... some thoughts... you asked for it

1) you mention bromeliads a few times as obvious choices for darts. From what i've read, and seen with my own azureus, bromeliads will be more for your enjoyment in this tank. not to say that you shouldn't use them, because they are beautiful and i have them in my viv, but typically, larger frogs like azureus, tincs, auratus, etc. won't lay eggs in a bromeliad. Ranitomeya, on the otherhand, love them. Also, my juvenile leucomelas climb in the broms all the time.

2) you asked about the benefits of having sphagnum moss in your tank. I always mix sphagnum in with my soil because its great at holding moisture, and it has a nice natural look. Also, i've read that it has antiseptic properties that can help resist against any nasties you might have growing in your viv.

3) wandering jew. be prepared to trim this stuff. I threw in a cutting that was about 4" long in a viv, and i cut FEET of it out of my viv all the time. (if anyone wants cuttings around socal, they're ALL YOURS).

4) for orchids, you should incorporate some kind of air flow into the tank. they (and all of the plants in my vivs) really seem to benefit from a little airflow. the easiest way to accomplish this is just get a little PC fan, wrap it in screen, and mount it up in the corner. there are all kinds of other ways to do it, but that's probably the most bang for your effort.

I know its used a lot, but my new fav orchid is macodes petola. it's a little jewel if you're not familiar and it has great foliage, which is nice if you're like me and you can't get anything to bloom. I planted this guy about 6 weeks ago and its got new leaves cropping up all the time

(top right orchid macodes petola, bottom left orchid, restrepia antennifora)


5) to reply on the bioseal GE silicone thing... I've searched and searched, it seems the consensus is that we probably don't think its a good thing, but no one has had a problem with it that we know about. many froggers have used it and had plenty of successful breeding in their tanks... i recently got in to clay backgrounds instead of the great stuff and silicone method... now that i'm in to clay, i don't mess w/ the stuff anymore and i couldn't be happier. i use pure aquarium silicone to hold stuff in place, and cover everything with clay where it needs to look good. if you want more info on how to do the clay thing, let me know, its a lot easier than foam/silicone, and in my opinion, more fun.

... i think that's enough for now ... wheeewwww....

-brett

[clownonfire]

Brett, thank you for the feedback, and thank you for joining in! You made a few points which we will be very useful. The bromeliads being one of them. If we can go without them, then we have the possibility of planting something else.... Any other suggestions?

And I'd like to know more about clay. My wife and I would be quite happy if we can get away from the foam/silicone, which we always make sure to use when the kids are not around, but mostly, if clay is an option, it would create a much more natural eco system, which would make this a real green enclosure. I'm all ears.

Thank you, Brett!

[clownonfire]

I received a Zoo Med Hubba Mist brand new for a fraction of the price and was thinking about using it for the new terrarium. Has anyone ever used it or know anything about it?

[DonLisk]

I received a Zoo Med Hubba Mist brand new for a fraction of the price and was thinking about using it for the new terrarium. Has anyone ever used it or know anything about it?

Looks like it would work fine and I think I read you just need to make sure your not using tap water so it doesn't get clogged up often.

I set up my Monsoon and now am trying to just run it once a day for 15 seconds. My humidity is over 90 percent and temps hit a high of 80 today but have been averaging 76 - 79 degrees. If your viv is retaining humidity as mine is then that Hubba Mist should work nicely.

Oh, I picked up a creeping fig today and put it into my new viv and we'll see how easily it takes.

[btcope]

clay is easy and fun ... especially when it comes time to start planting stuff. instead of trying to dig holes in foam and tie/wire things to the walls, you just mush them into the clay and you're done!

It's very simple, as well ... here goes.

Go to your local pottery store (if you can find one) and pick up sodium bentonite and redart clay. If you can't find the clay anywhere, you can go to petco and buy "dr. elsey's 100% clay kitty litter (non-perfumed)". This is just sodium bentonite clay, and if you soak it, it turns right back into mush again...

If you have the sodium bentonite and redart, you'll want to play with them some and mix the two until you get the right color (totally to your preference). When you're mixing it up, you want to mix in some milled sphagnum moss and peat moss. The organics help hold things together, as well as start coloring up and growing live moss right out of your clay which looks great. Final ratio should be about 3/4 clay 1/4 organics. If you put in too many organics, they will decompose over time and your clay might fall apart...

Mix it up and work the moisture out of it until its about the consistency of modeling clay, then just slam it in the viv. If it's too wet, it'll slide right off, if it's too dry, it'll crack and fall off. Since you're building for darts, you'll already be keeping the humidity up high, and the clay will be in good shape. If you leave the tank open and let it dry out, it'll crack and fall off...

One thing to note, after you set it up... You'll want to let it sit for a while before you run water directly over it. It needs time to develop "biofilms". But eventually you can slowly increase the amount of watering and turn it in to a continuous flow if you want a drip wall or something like that...

here's an old photo of a clay wall viv i did before it was completely covered in plants...


a lot of people have done lots of cool stuff with it. one guy i saw broke up a bunch of cork into little pieces and mushed it into the wall like a mosaic ... it was really cool and the plants looked very happy. wish i could find that post... somewhere on dendroboard.

-brett

[clownonfire]

This post will have a few topics:

@Don: Thanks for your comments on the Habba Mist. I'll use it, it seems perfectly capable of doing the job, and we use dechlorinated water which will help to keep it unclogged.

@Brett: I am more and more tempted to try the clay route. We do have lots of places in Montreal where we could buy the supplies. I send your process to one of my friends who's a clay artist, and will wait for her feedback as to the feasibility of it in my case (i'm more worried about me than in the clay - i'm not the most manual. I will end up learning, but after a few mistakes). I have a few questions, Brett:

1. How heavy will the clay get? As we will building for a terrarium that is about 80 cm large (31.5 inches) and close to 40 cm in height (15.75 inches), won't the clay get heavy for the bottom glass of the aquarium?

2. If I understand you, there's no need for a period of "curing" in this case?

3. As you say it needs to be not too dry and not too wet, basically, I need to build the clay backdrop a few days before I actually start the mister?

4. The idea of a drip wall appeals to me a great deal. I am thinking of adding sphagnum moss and pieces of cork in the clay, to your suggestion. But if I go this route, I will create drip paths. How long do we have to wait to start really using water on it?

Q.: Don, Brett, do we need to create a small pond for these frogs? As my vents are so small, they soak in the broms. Azureus are slightly bigger... I was thinking that if we create a drip wall, we could have some of it fall into a pond that could be built at the bottom of the drip wall, somewhere along the wall...

Thanks Brett.

Plants.

When I spoke to Sara my wife about creeping fig, she got really excited about the ideas of using it. So I am certain we will be using that one, and two orchids. The rest is still to be decided with you all.


Q.: If we are going to plant seeds, does anyone knows which plant should be best, and the process/time that it takes?

Q.: There's always the great lighting question. As I read often, it's often said not to bother for the frogs, but important for the plants. In case of darts and the terrarium we are all building, what is your thoughts on this?

Update:

1. We picked up the aquarium yesterday. So I'm thinking we should start building my March 1. I would like to submit you guys a drawing of the vivarium to have your ok, inputs, suggestions corrections, and post back the drawing with your comments and we'll use it as the blueprint.

2. I have finally decided on the frogs: It will be a pair of azureus (sorry John). There's a breeder in Montreal which supplies occasionally Mark Pepper from UE, and we will be taking his route.

3. Once we start building, I will make a recap of this pre-production/crowdsourcing process before going forward, to make the thread more concise for new readers and to make sure we have everyone's buy-in.

4. Once the terrarium will be complete, I will take this thread and condense it in a new How to build a terrarium for darts, with the planning, the process, the needed material, and a FAQ at the end of the article, with the most pertinent questions that were asked here, so that the most information will be gathered and available for future darters.

That's it for now! Thank you everyone for your contribution so far!

Eric