New vivarium - Crowdsourcing on Frog Forum

[clownonfire]

Recap so far:

1. We will be working with a 40 gallons;
2. After careful deliberation, the terrarium will be welcoming a pair of azureus!
3. We will be creating a drainage bottom using hydroballs;
4. GE II Silicone will be used (we'll define the amount soon enough);
5.We will be working around a nice big piece of java wood.

What we will need to define is:

1. I usually use layers of earth, them coconut husk, then a forest mix. Are we all good with this?
2. I have a fairly good amount of sphahnum moss. Will we be using some (closer to when we will introduce the frogs) beneath the leaf litter layer?
3. The plants. Of course, bromeliads. What other suggestions do you have? Which ones should be seeded and which ones should be planted?
4. Anything else?

Eric

[Leefrogs]

Just a few specifics on drainage layer, usually hydroballs are covered with a screen, or weed barier. I hear people do this with whites and bigger species because they burrow. Is this common practice when it's a smaller frog? And are u going to great stuff the back wall and all that sculpting too?
Java fern is pretty, maybe pillow moss, a few nice rocks, and a bi color arrow plant. There's a beautiful variety popular at Walmart, white veins, dark green/ blue top, and purple underside.

[clownonfire]

Just a few specifics on drainage layer, usually hydroballs are covered with a screen, or weed barier. I hear people do this with whites and bigger species because they burrow. Is this common practice when it's a smaller frog? And are u going to great stuff the back wall and all that sculpting too?
Java fern is pretty, maybe pillow moss, a few nice rocks, and a bi color arrow plant. There's a beautiful variety popular at Walmart, white veins, dark green/ blue top, and purple underside.

Gingerlee, tat is a good point, one that I completely forgot to mention! Yes, we do put a layer of screen just above the hydroball as a barrier... Thank you, it something that we should make clear if anyone else wants to go this route.

As for the back wall, yes, we will use foam, silicone and a mixture of forest bark and coconut husk and sculp something beautiful... We should start designing soon and offer you a few ideas before moving ahead for inputs, additions, etc...!

[DonLisk]

1. I usually use layers of earth, them coconut husk, then a forest mix. Are we all good with this?
Definitely

2. I have a fairly good amount of sphahnum moss. Will we be using some (closer to when we will introduce the frogs) beneath the leaf litter layer?
I haven't used any and would love to know how my dart viv would benefit from the moss under the leaf liter.

3. The plants. Of course, bromeliads. What other suggestions do you have? Which ones should be seeded and which ones should be planted?
This is where I have zero experience. Found my ivy didn't like damp conditions so I'm gonna learn something here.

[clownonfire]

1. I usually use layers of earth, them coconut husk, then a forest mix. Are we all good with this?
Definitely

2. I have a fairly good amount of sphahnum moss. Will we be using some (closer to when we will introduce the frogs) beneath the leaf litter layer?
I haven't used any and would love to know how my dart viv would benefit from the moss under the leaf liter.

3. The plants. Of course, bromeliads. What other suggestions do you have? Which ones should be seeded and which ones should be planted?
This is where I have zero experience. Found my ivy didn't like damp conditions so I'm gonna learn something here.

Using moss has been for us to mimic as best the natural environment of the frogs. We have used pillow moss in most of our terrariums, including the vents, so far. I personally really like it as it can root (so to speak) and will live once well cared for, as opposed to sphagnum moss. The goal is also to keep the enclosure as moist as possible and moss really helps in our experience.

The downside to sphagnum moss is that I have read here on this forum, and elsewhere, that live cultures will hide in it, mostly pinhead crickets (as you know, fruit flies are worriless and are much easier food for darts). I’ve also read that some frogs will sometimes eat sphagnum moss, and it can be somewhat damaging, if not fatal. I think poison beauties can help us with this one.

As for plants… I’m with you on this one. Not my forte. When we first planted the vents terrarium, we put some tillandsia and poison beauties, and the vents breeder were apprehensive and warned me that they would not survive in the vents enclosure…. And they were right. It’s too humid and they don’t have time to dry, so they started rotting from the roots.

We will certainly plant some wandering jews in our vents enclosure… It could be a good one for the azureus too.

[DonLisk]

I'll have to look at some Wandering Jews and Pillow Moss this weekend. Might work for replacing the Ivy I removed this week and the moss could cover some of the open substrate areas.

[Leefrogs]

Any fern will do really, there's old school viv's that have things like orcihd, african violet, or even viola(seed) or called violets. They will take over and need to be thinned. Orchid a an air plant, plant in original pot. No need to transplant just pritz . Also good moisture lovers are japanese sweet flag, chinese evergreen, and peace lily. I'm sure going on black jungles web site might have more ideas for u also, and they sell the plants also.

[DonLisk]

Any fern will do really, there's old school viv's that have things like orcihd, african violet, or even viola(seed) or called violets. They will take over and need to be thinned. Orchid a an air plant, plant in original pot. No need to transplant just pritz . Also good moisture lovers are japanese sweet flag, chinese evergreen, and peace lily. I'm sure going on black jungles web site might have more ideas for u also, and they sell the plants also.

I was thinking on a road trip to Black Jungle on Saturday or Sunday if they are open.
Hoping I don't have to work Saturday, if so I'd be cutting it close since its about 3 hours from me.

[clownonfire]

Any fern will do really, there's old school viv's that have things like orcihd, african violet, or even viola(seed) or called violets. They will take over and need to be thinned. Orchid a an air plant, plant in original pot. No need to transplant just pritz . Also good moisture lovers are japanese sweet flag, chinese evergreen, and peace lily. I'm sure going on black jungles web site might have more ideas for u also, and they sell the plants also.

GingerLee, thank you. I spoke to my wife who worked for a long time as a florist and a horticulturist, and she says they are great choices. He said that the Chinese Evergreen don't like to be over wet, but that in a warmer terrarium, it would probably be ok. She also says that both the Chinese Evergreen and the Peace Lily can get quite big. She thinks the Peace Lily could nonetheless be great as they are great air purifiers.

We also have two orchids at home which we will plant. Currently, these orchids have no flower, just the leaves, but if the conditions are right, she said they might bloom again.

Any other suggestions? Sara (my wife) will also give us a few by tomorrow...

As for Black Jungle, I'll take a look at their website. We are in Montreal, so we'll find something closer to home for the purchases.

[John]

Eric asked me to look and contribute so here goes.

Species choice, I have never been crazy about Azureus (yes, I'm that one person). I would choose a tinctorius, probably Powder Blue. Auratus are a nice but if you do choose one, go for one of the "fluorescent" kinds like the Panamanian kind that Josh's Frogs sells - I know you're in Canada so you can't get them from him, but at least you can see what I mean from his web site.

Silicone: I'm actually a chemist. From everything I've read, I believe Bioseal is a bad thing to have around frogs. However, I think we can get away with it well in a thumbnail vivarium because the nasties end up in the drainage layer, which most people will siphon off every now and then. There is no recycling of any chemical residue into the tank, and tadpoles are not raised in it. This is more of a concern in the case of larger frogs that might deposit eggs in a built-in pond which uses the drainage layer water. I have no evidence to give you on whether or not bioseal is harmful, but I have only ever used it in the thumbnail situation and I've not noticed any issues with the frogs.

Plants: I'm really not an expert on plants, but I do have preferences for certain situations. Do you have specific niches left to fill?

[clownonfire]

Eric asked me to look and contribute so here goes.

Species choice, I have never been crazy about Azureus (yes, I'm that one person). I would choose a tinctorius, probably Powder Blue. Auratus are a nice but if you do choose one, go for one of the "fluorescent" kinds like the Panamanian kind that Josh's Frogs sells - I know you're in Canada so you can't get them from him, but at least you can see what I mean from his web site.

Silicone: I'm actually a chemist. From everything I've read, I believe Bioseal is a bad thing to have around frogs. However, I think we can get away with it well in a thumbnail vivarium because the nasties end up in the drainage layer, which most people will siphon off every now and then. There is no recycling of any chemical residue into the tank, and tadpoles are not raised in it. This is more of a concern in the case of larger frogs that might deposit eggs in a built-in pond which uses the drainage layer water. I have no evidence to give you on whether or not bioseal is harmful, but I have only ever used it in the thumbnail situation and I've not noticed any issues with the frogs.

Plants: I'm really not an expert on plants, but I do have preferences for certain situations. Do you have specific niches left to fill?

John, thanks for taking time to participate and giving us your feedback. For the silicone, we won’t be using a lot, but I will follow your lead on your terrariums “how to build” threads you have and will use the GE II Silicone.

As for plants, we are still in the process of selection, nothing is set in stone yet. I know broms are always a clear choice for darts. And we do have orchids home, which we would like to use. But we have lots of space to fill. So please, I would be curious to see which plants you would prefer… It’s a collective effort, after all!

I’m pretty certain we will go with the Azureus. We could still be swayed towards the Powder Blue… We will be getting them from Understory Enterprises this Summer during Mark Pepper’s trip to Montreal. We still have a month or two to make a clear choice.

[Leefrogs]

I have a mini peace lily, with blooms the size of littlest pinkie nail. As far as I can tell they come in 3 sizes. Orchid bloom will bend in viv and look awsome. There's a Jap painted fern that's kinda blue purple and green. But I'm not sure what zone it is. May need dormant period, anything over a zone 9 will do good in a viv.

[btcope]

Okay ... whew, this is going to be fun... some thoughts... you asked for it

1) you mention bromeliads a few times as obvious choices for darts. From what i've read, and seen with my own azureus, bromeliads will be more for your enjoyment in this tank. not to say that you shouldn't use them, because they are beautiful and i have them in my viv, but typically, larger frogs like azureus, tincs, auratus, etc. won't lay eggs in a bromeliad. Ranitomeya, on the otherhand, love them. Also, my juvenile leucomelas climb in the broms all the time.

2) you asked about the benefits of having sphagnum moss in your tank. I always mix sphagnum in with my soil because its great at holding moisture, and it has a nice natural look. Also, i've read that it has antiseptic properties that can help resist against any nasties you might have growing in your viv.

3) wandering jew. be prepared to trim this stuff. I threw in a cutting that was about 4" long in a viv, and i cut FEET of it out of my viv all the time. (if anyone wants cuttings around socal, they're ALL YOURS).

4) for orchids, you should incorporate some kind of air flow into the tank. they (and all of the plants in my vivs) really seem to benefit from a little airflow. the easiest way to accomplish this is just get a little PC fan, wrap it in screen, and mount it up in the corner. there are all kinds of other ways to do it, but that's probably the most bang for your effort.

I know its used a lot, but my new fav orchid is macodes petola. it's a little jewel if you're not familiar and it has great foliage, which is nice if you're like me and you can't get anything to bloom. I planted this guy about 6 weeks ago and its got new leaves cropping up all the time

(top right orchid macodes petola, bottom left orchid, restrepia antennifora)


5) to reply on the bioseal GE silicone thing... I've searched and searched, it seems the consensus is that we probably don't think its a good thing, but no one has had a problem with it that we know about. many froggers have used it and had plenty of successful breeding in their tanks... i recently got in to clay backgrounds instead of the great stuff and silicone method... now that i'm in to clay, i don't mess w/ the stuff anymore and i couldn't be happier. i use pure aquarium silicone to hold stuff in place, and cover everything with clay where it needs to look good. if you want more info on how to do the clay thing, let me know, its a lot easier than foam/silicone, and in my opinion, more fun.

... i think that's enough for now ... wheeewwww....

-brett

[clownonfire]

Brett, thank you for the feedback, and thank you for joining in! You made a few points which we will be very useful. The bromeliads being one of them. If we can go without them, then we have the possibility of planting something else.... Any other suggestions?

And I'd like to know more about clay. My wife and I would be quite happy if we can get away from the foam/silicone, which we always make sure to use when the kids are not around, but mostly, if clay is an option, it would create a much more natural eco system, which would make this a real green enclosure. I'm all ears.

Thank you, Brett!

[clownonfire]

I received a Zoo Med Hubba Mist brand new for a fraction of the price and was thinking about using it for the new terrarium. Has anyone ever used it or know anything about it?

[DonLisk]

I received a Zoo Med Hubba Mist brand new for a fraction of the price and was thinking about using it for the new terrarium. Has anyone ever used it or know anything about it?

Looks like it would work fine and I think I read you just need to make sure your not using tap water so it doesn't get clogged up often.

I set up my Monsoon and now am trying to just run it once a day for 15 seconds. My humidity is over 90 percent and temps hit a high of 80 today but have been averaging 76 - 79 degrees. If your viv is retaining humidity as mine is then that Hubba Mist should work nicely.

Oh, I picked up a creeping fig today and put it into my new viv and we'll see how easily it takes.