Terrarium builds

[bshmerlie]

This is a new thread although it is kind of a response to an exsting one that is currently going on where one person shared a build and felt the criticism was a little too harsh from what would be deamed as someone with more experience in terrarium builds. But the thing is we should all think of ourselves as new people when it comes to this hobby. Everyday new ideas come out from different things that people have tried. I believe it is the encouragment of that effort that gets the ideas flowing. The truth is we don't have enough members here showing their builds from the ground up. I for one would like to see more. There are a lot of SENIOR members whom have been in the frog hobby for many many years. But when it comes down to it, those are not the members that are sharing their builds (considering how many frogs they have there should be plenty of opprotunities). Instead it is the new members doing it for the first time, all proud of their accomplishments and putting it out there for all to see. Then...along comes a senior member saying, "its nice...BUT". We can all learn from each other.. from the things we did right to the things we did wrong. For that matter the same goes for breeding. We see new members showing us their first froglets but I don't see the senior members showing us their entire breeding operation. I challenge all SENIOR members (and you know who you are) to dig through your old photos of a build you recently did or something from long ago or some great breeding shots (from tadpole to froglet -step by step). Please share them with us here on Frog Forum. From all of us new people out there we are dying to see them.

[clownonfire]

Cheri, thank you for sharing this. It's a very valid point. I am rather new to the hobby and I have learned a great deal by being here and on different forums. Whenever it comes to a passion or a hobby, everyone is "often" an expert, but not everyone is a good communicator. In some other threads, i got a few comments from other enthusiasts that felt harsh and could have been discouraging if i did not have such a hard head. Actually, a friend of mine who is very well known to the field and involved with Understory Enterprises decided a few months back to not participate in forums anymore because of that exact reason.

It's unfortunately not an easy thing to build a terrarium for one specific species. Granted, some will inquire more before getting a new frogs or building a terrarium/vivarium/you name it. But for others, resource like these forums are a great place to learn, and a little empathy goes a long way.

Thank you once again for this post. Im sure I speak for many.

Eric the francophone with a broken English

[1beataway]

Cheri, I think your thread is great. I think it's great to share experience with tanks and breeding. Personally, I've had a lot of trouble getting information on breeding, but it's something I am interested in doing.

So I second your motion.

[smashtoad]

I don't know if forums actually compete with one another for members, I suppose they do. But anyway, dendroboard has all the infomation one needs to build a fantastic viv...and has for years. You don't even have to be a member...just lurk.

I understand totally what your friend felt, clown. Trying to be sugar sweet is nice, but accomplishes nothing when you mean no harm and just want to help someone and others.

For the benefit of our animals and those that visit our homes and view our vivs, we should try to set them up as natural as possible, shouldn't we?

I've amassed below some major viv points, I hope they help someone.

1. Plastic plants are pointless and benefit a vivarium in no way, shape, or form. They also get hit with splash (from water features) and fade under UV light, evenually becoming even uglier than they were the day they were purchased.

Don't be afraid to try live plants, stuff like Strawberry begonia is bulletproof in the high humidity environ of the viv...and will probably even grow in gravel, though I have not tried it. Scindapsis and Philodendron scandens will grow in water.

2. False bottoms are useful for drainage if one is dead set on using soil as substrate. Most viv plant species will root and grow fine in sphagnum moss, so why the false bottom? Just use 4-5 inches of BB sized gravel and top it with sphag. The water flow turns the gravel into a big biological filter.

Wrap your pump in a couple layers of black fiberglass screen, using a small zip tie to secure the screen around the outgoing tubing. Set the pump all the way on the bottom in a back corner and you can route the tubing anywhere you want to make a water fall. Be mindful of flowlog placement regarding splash, cause it will cover your glass in no time. If your RO water (which you really should use) has any mineral content at all you will get wtaer spots.

3. Buy a good light for the sake of your plants. They are getting more affordable all the time, and moon lights are freakin awesome. Unless you are using a 20 long, which is real short, a single T12 flourescent bulb might not be sufficient to support good plant growth.

4. Your background will be the labor intensive part of your tank, whether you go Great Stuff and coco or sodium bentonite (kitty litter)...it is a lot of work...but since you don't have to jump through all those false bottom hoops...it kinda evens out...and with a nice background, your tank will look amazing. Just remember to install the water fall tube first. Your background is the one thing you have to get right...without it, your tank won't stop folks in their tracks, unless, that is, you do one of those big cubes that is designed to be viewed from all sides. Some of those are amazing as well...

5. Contrary to a previous comment, designing a viv for a specific species is the easiest way to design, and really the only way it should be approached. Why designing for more than one species would be easier is lost on me.

6. Always use a glass canopy. Cut as much of the center out of the plastic strip on the back that you can and glue or silicone screen over it. This will offer enough ventilation for most vivs. You can prop the front lid of the canopy up if you wish.

I may think of more, but for now this is it.

[clownonfire]

I don't know if forums actually compete with one another for members, I suppose they do. But anyway, dendroboard has all the infomation one needs to build a fantastic viv...and has for years. You don't even have to be a member...just lurk.

I understand totally what your friend felt, clown. Trying to be sugar sweet is nice, but accomplishes nothing when you mean no harm and just want to help someone and others.

For the benefit of our animals and those that visit our homes and view our vivs, we should try to set them up as natural as possible, shouldn't we?

I've amassed below some major viv points, I hope they help someone.

1. Plastic plants are pointless and benefit a vivarium in no way, shape, or form. They also get hit with splash (from water features) and fade under UV light, evenually becoming even uglier than they were the day they were purchased.

Don't be afraid to try live plants, stuff like Strawberry begonia is bulletproof in the high humidity environ of the viv...and will probably even grow in gravel, though I have not tried it. Scindapsis and Philodendron scandens will grow in water.

2. False bottoms are useful for drainage if one is dead set on using soil as substrate. Most viv plant species will root and grow fine in sphagnum moss, so why the false bottom? Just use 4-5 inches of BB sized gravel and top it with sphag. The water flow turns the gravel into a big biological filter.

Wrap your pump in a couple layers of black fiberglass screen, using a small zip tie to secure the screen around the outgoing tubing. Set the pump all the way on the bottom in a back corner and you can route the tubing anywhere you want to make a water fall. Be mindful of flowlog placement regarding splash, cause it will cover your glass in no time. If your RO water (which you really should use) has any mineral content at all you will get wtaer spots.

3. Buy a good light for the sake of your plants. They are getting more affordable all the time, and moon lights are freakin awesome. Unless you are using a 20 long, which is real short, a single T12 flourescent bulb might not be sufficient to support good plant growth.

4. Your background will be the labor intensive part of your tank, whether you go Great Stuff and coco or sodium bentonite (kitty litter)...it is a lot of work...but since you don't have to jump through all those false bottom hoops...it kinda evens out...and with a nice background, your tank will look amazing. Just remember to install the water fall tube first. Your background is the one thing you have to get right...without it, your tank won't stop folks in their tracks, unless, that is, you do one of those big cubes that is designed to be viewed from all sides. Some of those are amazing as well...

5. Contrary to a previous comment, designing a viv for a specific species is the easiest way to design, and really the only way it should be approached. Why designing for more than one species would be easier is lost on me.

6. Always use a glass canopy. Cut as much of the center out of the plastic strip on the back that you can and glue or silicone screen over it. This will offer enough ventilation for most vivs. You can prop the front lid of the canopy up if you wish.

I may think of more, but for now this is it.

Smashtoad.... NICE... Add this to what can be found on dendroboard, or closer to me, on canadart.org, and even here, and you have amazing resources to build the appropriate setup for your frog.

Reading something like what you just wrote actually is what the beginner needs... And I think it's one of the points Cheri was trying to make. Yes, it is easy to build the perfect vivarium for your frog, but the information and the comfort level of all is the not same. My point was definitely more in the tone that some comments are written. I'm not a frog expert, I'm a new enthusiast, and slowly learning about the hobby. What I am though is a web and social media expert, and communication and tone are of the essence. It can be discouraging, and sometimes, humiliating if a response is harsh. Someone who does not create the perfect viv for his frog is not necessarily careless about his frog. Like with everything else, some take more time to adjust, or to learn. Being negative/sarcastic can easily achieve the opposite: frustration, shyness, and discouragement.

Eric

[Rocko]

If your RO water (which you really should use) has any mineral content at all you will get wtaer spots.

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to build back the mineral content in RO water through the use of various salts if you plan on using it for anything other than cleaning, otherwise your animals run the same risks as drinking distilled water.

[DonLisk]

6. Always use a glass canopy. Cut as much of the center out of the plastic strip on the back that you can and glue or silicone screen over it. This will offer enough ventilation for most vivs. You can prop the front lid of the canopy up if you wish.

I may think of more, but for now this is it.

Ha, I just made the screen for mine late night.... was simple and inexpensive with parts from the Home Depot. Went in the new Viv which has a clay ball bottom and hopefully a new rain system coming this weekend :-)

[DonLisk]

I have rebuilt my poor Whites Viv over and over, slowly learning from my mistakes. Pretty much all my mistakes have been corrected by info I was given or found here.

I usually blame the wife on these mistakes and she says it was just another reason I'm sleeping in the snow fort this week.
:::::: send blankets::::::::::::::

[Sierra]

I'm really new to keeping frogs too, but I'm loving it! I've learned so much from this website. More than countless care articles combined. I just want to say thank you to all the kind people on this site, you guys are really friendly. It's hard being new to the hobby because the lack of good information available, not to mention all of the false things twisted in too. The people on this site have helped me understand how to take care of my frogs the best I can, and the froggies appreciate that too! Thanks everyone!

[smashtoad]

Now correct me if I am wrong here, but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to build back the mineral content in RO water through the use of various salts if you plan on using it for anything other than cleaning, otherwise your animals run the same risks as drinking distilled water.

I've never added anything to my RO, but I would not dispute the possibility that some mineral addition may be beneficial. My guess is that there are lots of aquarium products that will fit the bill. Again...as long as they don't end up creating hard to clean water spots on my glass I am a happy camper...so design against splash. It is not as easy as it sounds.

[John]

Many good points made.

On "Senior Members" - I never liked that whole rank thing - it only comes from the number of posts that people make and has nothing to do with the quality of those posts, or that person's knowledge/experience. I would be quite happy to change it to something else. What do you all think?

Regarding the points made by Smashtoad - I think again some of what you're saying is definitely open to individual opinion. Which is fine, but everything we post really needs a proviso/disclaimer of "Your mileage may vary".

Regarding the distilled or R/O water issue, it really depends on how you're dealing with the water in your terrarium. If you are keeping darts, the chances are you never remove water from the terrarium. In that case you should not be putting anything into the distilled or R/O water - you want to maintain the amount of dissolved salts already in the terrarium. Now if you do water changes then you should be adding dissolved salts, otherwise you'll be constantly removing salts and nutrients from the terrarium.

[smashtoad]

I have rebuilt my poor Whites Viv over and over, slowly learning from my mistakes. Pretty much all my mistakes have been corrected by info I was given or found here.

I usually blame the wife on these mistakes and she says it was just another reason I'm sleeping in the snow fort this week.
:::::: send blankets::::::::::::::

Ha...no kidding. It took me about four years to get my wife to hold a crested gecko...now she loves them. But the amblypigids?...uh...nah. I have a gravid Damon, and she wouldn't even hardly look at pictures of mom with the babies on her back.

Just wanted to stop here and point out that this method has not been used on animals as big as a Whites. My guess is that this method, used successfully and proportionately ramped up with a pair of adult whites would require a tank in the range of 125 gallons to account for the increased bioload.

Bioload is THE major consideration in a tank such as this. If the tank's nitrifiers cannot keep up...the tank will stink...and hence...it ain't workin. Springtails and isopods will help, as will physically removing any fecal matter than you see.

Also...if I was going to use, say, a 75 gallon tank for a trio of whites or M. nasuta...I would buy a couple boxes of ceramic bio-media (which is sold with a bag to put them in) and bury them in the gravel to aid in the nitrification cycle...and obviously...the more plants you have feeding on the waste the better. Scindapsis has very aggressive roots and is beautiful. It would make a great poo user, and the roots will grow all the way through the gravel.

John...agreed. I am keeping darts, inverts, and a pygmy chameleon this way. If I had to do water changes, I would personally not use this method. This method is all about display of design, display of plants, and small inhabitants relative to the size of the tank. Moving water is the key...but I must admit...the idea of adding salt to an amphibian tank is a new one on me.

Would you expound on that? Do you just use a tiny amount of aquarium salts? I have a terribilis in this tank with what apears to be a goiter, which in humans is from a lack of iodine, right?

[bshmerlie]

Just wanted to give this thread a bump. Don Lisk just posted a build thread that was fantastic. Does anyone else have any thing that they've done in the past that they would like to share with us? Also I would love something similar for breeding (rain chamber setups or dart production lines). Maybe we could have a contest for the most informative thread. The winner gets a ....? AAhhh... maybe I shouldn't say... I don't know if John would allow me to give a prize.

[DonLisk]

Thanks Cheri.

Wow, a rain chamber build would be so cool :-)
I'd love to see a start to finish on one.

[bshmerlie]

I think the whole idea of this is to get people to share their experiences with a concept from start to finish. Sometimes we get little pieces of information from various threads but I would like to see the project from start to finish. I want all the details. If its a rain chamber...what kind of pump should I use...what should be the temp of the water...I want pictures how the tubing should be layed out....how deep should the water be...ect.,ect. It could even be a well done video. Get multiple people showing how they've done the same concept...it gets people thinking. There's more than one way to make a waterfall, a rain chamber, a background. Let's see those ideas.