Australian or Indonesian ?

[Leefrogs]

I've looked at a million pictures of whites frogs and still can't tell the difference. Then went and got two books bout whites, one by J Coborn, one by P de Vosjoli. Each says the other has more a blue color. I can't tell by the eye brows what's who. Can done one give me a side by side pict if each, please, sooo confused.

[wesleybrouwer]

Top is the Indonesian L.caerulea, bottom originates from Australia

Altough there are also really blue animals, those are bred with a genetical disorder.
The green concists out of blue and yellow pigments, sometimes the yellow pigment will be missing,
resulting in a blue coloration.
In nature this can be rarely seen as well, breeding by selection can result in a higher percentage of frogs with the pigment deficiency.

[Leefrogs]

ok I read that , i know bout blue phase. Thanks for side by side, these are your own animals im taking it. But I'm looking for eye brow differnces, kinda see it there, less bump on true Aussie, did the breeding of blue phase flatten the bumps more? Or is this typical eye bump for any Aussie? Thanks for the pict, that helped, those two books describe difference, but didn't label each pict A or I......


I'd like an Aussie next time, and wana see difference. Thanks again!!!!!

[Kisa]

Looking at that picture I'm thinking now that my Bruce (WTF) might be Australian but I always thought he was indonesian because of his tendency to be brown. Not sure if there's a coloration difference besides the blue phase but I read somewhere that Indonesians tend on being more brown than green, is that true or did I read wrong?

Would anyone be able to tell me if Bruce was Indonesian or Australian? There are pictures of him in my albums in my profile. If anyone who reads this could take a look and tell me that would be cool, but I understand it's hard to tell. XD

[wesleybrouwer]

I had the picture lying around, I'm not sure anymore but I believe its a picture taken by devin edmonds of amphibiancare.com .

Most animals are Indonesian , since Australia never allowed their fauna to be exported for commercial purpose.
But then again, where did bearded dragons came from

You can say that it is right about the browner coloration.
Australian frogs usually are bright green, blue green and in blue phase they are turquoise and deep blue.
The Indonesian are a duller green , green brown, reddish brown, olive green.

So they can vary from jade green, lime green, blue green to olive green or purplish reddish brown. Also the blue phase can be found.
If you have one being more brown they are likely Indonesian.
When they turn into an other color then they usually are something may be wrong .
But then again, it may be brown because something is wrong,
So it is important to know you're frogs .

[Kisa]

Yeah my frog is under a lot of stress right now, he was recently sick so that might be why he's browner. He was more brown in the pet store but after a few weeks at home when he started to get used to his surroundings he would start to get a little greener. I think right now he just needs time to relax and de-stress. I wish I could leave him alone, but he's been constipated for a long time and I need to treat him for it every night until he starts going by himself regularly.

He has a "mustache" on his upper lip that is usually a blueish color so I think he may have a tendency toward green. I hope he does and he'll get over his stress soon and be happy...

Thanks for the facts, I personally hope he's Indonesian. >>

[amisbeef]

Kisa, I just took a look at your pictures of Bruce on your profile, and he is definately Indonesian
Colour isn't a clue alone, but with such a shade of brown it is quite clear. The main indication is his thicker brow and much more 'chunky' head. This is why some people think that Indonesians get much bigger, they can reach bigger lengths, but they have much less defined faces.
My Australians when they go darker never completely turn brown, it never covers their limbs completely and aren't as dark.

[Kisa]

Kisa, I just took a look at your pictures of Bruce on your profile, and he is definately Indonesian
Colour isn't a clue alone, but with such a shade of brown it is quite clear. The main indication is his thicker brow and much more 'chunky' head. This is why some people think that Indonesians get much bigger, they can reach bigger lengths, but they have much less defined faces.
My Australians when they go darker never completely turn brown, it never covers their limbs completely and aren't as dark.

Oh really? Thanks for info I never would have guessed. I had my lots drawn that he was Aussie, I'm glad to hear he's Indonesian! I wanted one of both and I was going to try for a "blue phase" next time, so I didn't want to have two Aussies.

I thought that his color would be an indicator, he gets a really dark brown sometimes, like chocolate colored on his back and the very top of his head. When he goes green it's very light and still has a shade of brown attached, like it's not REALLY green, you know?

I posted a thread about his color a long time ago when I first joined the forum cuz I thought he was unique, turns out I was just looking at the wrong strain. XD I think he really does want to be green though, it shows up in that mustache. ^ ^

Haha I like his big ol' head, I think it enhances his bratty personality. XD

Thanks so much for info I'm really glad to know what he is, so at least when people ask I can tell them proudly he's Indonesian. ^ ^

Ginger, you should get some really good pictures of your two White's and post them up here, see if Amisbeef can tell you what she thinks about yours too. She seems to be pretty informed!

[amisbeef]

Actually, I could only see your profile picture Kisa from the internet on my phone, now logging into my laptop to look, I'm convinced that in some of the pictures, his face looks more Australian than Indonesian! But in most pictures his face looks definately Indonesian. Because it's hard to tell in pictures, hopefully you can be more certain with the help of my pictures below!

I've attatched a couple of pictures of two of mine - I hope it works!
The first picture is of one of my Australians, Sid. He is definately Australian, he's a bit brown at the moment, and he along with my other Australian Lily in my profile picture never fully go brown, their limbs still stay a lovely light bluey green colour. Both Sid, Lily and Benji (who is a bit darker green) are all much smaller than my Indonesians. Lily in my picture is 5, and about 3.5 inches and Sid in the picture attatched is 1 and a half and is 2 inches.

The second picture is of one of my Indonesians Amos. When he goes brown he can go dark brown all over, just leaving a bit of white on his tummy and throat. He can also go a really bright green colour, but is often greeny brown. He's got almost more of an angry looking face, and a much more 'chunky' forehead. He is my biggest frog and as a male he has still reached JUST over 4 inches. I am not sure how big my Indonsians I left at home are, but I know that they were bigger and had almost a more angry look about them compared to Australians!

Obviously due to genetics, all frogs characteristics are different, but this is just my experience of the two types of Whites tree frog. Obviously I'm not saying that ALL Indonesians are brown and have angry looking faces! Just personally, the few that I have follow the criteria above

Hope what I said can help!

[amisbeef]

Sorry, I've just realised my pictures, especially of my Australian Whites aren't great!
I'll attach some more


The first 3 pictures are Aussies. Lily, Sid, then Sid again.

Then the last 2 are Indonesians. Hans (showing off how bright Indonesians can get!) and Amos.

[Leefrogs]

sadly, I cannot post Picts. My entire operation based on a iPhone. I had to email my friend and give him my password to add to alblum. Kisa, he's now way down in Texas. So that's my delema. But just the eyebrow expanation helped me, kermits indo, lump Aussie. I look at the debth of the V in head that leads to eyebrow. Thank u amisbeef for xtra Picts.

[Leefrogs]

sadly, I cannot post Picts. My entire operation based on a iPhone. I had to email my friend and give him my password to add to alblum. Kisa, he's now way down in Texas. So that's my delema. But just the eyebrow expanation helped me, kermits indo, lump Aussie. I look at the debth of the V in head that leads to eyebrow. Thank u amisbeef for xtra Picts. lumps been getting greener now, especially at night and when hummidity is low, kermit green when sleeping and eating.

[Kisa]

Amisbeef, looking at the pictures of your white's I think Bruce more closely resembles the last two pictures actually. Did you get a chance to check out the pics in my albums? I have some better ones of his face there, the one on my profile is from the side so it's not as representative.

The Aussies seem to be a bit smaller and thinner and seem not to have as much loose skin around the bellies. My Bruce is pretty fat in the stomach area, but he does have bigger ridges and more loose skin, like Amos.

I'm not 100%, but if Hans and Amos are Indie, I think Bruce is too. I could be wrong though, again, you definitely know more about this than me. XD;

CUTE pictures btw, Sid is adorable and tiny! I want a baby like that. When I got bruce he was already a full 2 1/2 inches long! XD He's getting a little bigger now and fits just right in the cupped part of the palm of my hand. It's his favorite spot on me to sit. ^ ^

Oh I see Ginger, I'm sorry about that. D: The pictures you have up in the album are good though, I wish I could see more of your cuties though, they're so cute! From what I've seen. Oh, what the heck, ALL White's are ADORABLE! >< I <3 them.

On a side note, can anyone help me learn how to put thumbnails into my messages? I hate having to upload to photobucket to post pictures in threads. D:

[Leefrogs]

idk!! But I think think they explained sumwhere by forum rules???!?!!????!?!?!

[Kisa]

I dont know!! But I think think they explained sumwhere by forum rules???!?!!????!?!?!

I'll take a look, I wish I knew it's so hard but everyone seems to be able to do it but me and you! D:

Maybe Amisbeef can give us a tutorial?

[Kisa]

Update: Found out how to put pictures into your messages, but you have to have them online already i.e. in a photo-bucket account, for thumbnails to show up in your message.

AND

I posted some more pictures of Bruce, some better one's of his face (and that gorgeous mustache of his) and started a sort of galley ala Bruce if anyone wants to check it out.

I find this little guy just loves the camera, I can't stop getting great shots of him. ^ ^ And all on a teenie weenie camera phone. >>

Sorry for the randomness of this thread...oops. ><

[wesleybrouwer]

Yep, 100% Indonesian.

All the WC animals are Indonesian since Australia don't allow the export,
so if you can buy WC Australian it is illegal, so don't buy.

The Australian form isn't easily found 100% pure, since a lot of people mixed them in with the Indonesians.
One of the reasons is people just don't know about it, a L.caerulea is 1 species so why seperate? Something similair with the Red eyed tree frogs,
there is a huge difference in localities, but i rarely come by people knowing it.
A lot of mixing occurs there as well, so you end up with frogs of wich you are unable to tell what is what.
I even saw a breeding pair of wich male and female where the same size

On the other hand, the small amount of Australian caerulea makes it difficult to keep the population healthy and strong, so there had to be chosen, do we just accept any decline by inbreeding, or do we outbreed them with the Indonesian form wich is available enough and still considered as the same species.

In the wild the Indonesians tend to be larger overall, altough there are Australian populations reaching the same sizes as well.
So it isn't that black and white.

The bumps on the head can occur in both variaties more or less.
Altough the Indonesian tend to get overweighted a little easier.
When overweighted they will get layers of fat on the body and head, giving them the dumpy tree frog look.
So when you have an Aussie moving less then a Indonesian, it just might be the other way around with the ridges on the head.
So it isn't all that easy indentifying them by shape, this can be individual and
crossbreeds are quit common as well.

Let's say, chances on a pure Australian green tree frog in perfect health (genetical) are small.

[spankyg]

Let's say, chances on a pure Australian green tree frog in perfect health (genetical) are small.

If anyone needs a look at some pure aussie blood, I can provide

[Leefrogs]

I know I'm so green with envy. Do your guys ever go brown?
And when do they start getting the spots? Like 6 months old?

[spankyg]

I know I'm so green with envy. Do your guys ever go brown?
And when do they start getting the spots? Like 6 months old?

haha, well, it is exactly like "amisbeef" said, how they don't ever completely go brown, only the top of them turns to a real light brown, and the sides are still vividly green.

Regarding the spots, mine have had them since they were tiny froglets (they became visible when they were fully grown tadpoles).