New White's Set up

[winterwolfes]

I am new to tree frogs. I did a lot of reading on the internet over the past month and decided to get White's. There is so much conflicting information out there. It is difficult to know what is correct. It's amazing how some sites have such drastically different temperature ranges. I've read any where from 68 degrees at night to a minimum of 75 at night. I've read set ups should be half water and half land to just using potting soil or coconut husks. I've also read conflicting information on how many frogs can be kept together in various tank sizes. And I've read all this different stuff from various care sheets or articles that seem offical and not just from people on forums.

I have a 20 gallon tank that measures 16.5" (H) x12" (D) x 24" (w). I've read that 2 frogs can be housed in a 20 gallon and the person at the store told me this too. But I'm having my doubts about this as I've read otherwise as well. There were three frogs in the tank at the store and they sold me the two that were hanging out together in the same corner of the tank. During the day they retreat to separate corners on the warmer side of the tank to sleep. At night, I see them hanging around each other sometimes. But I am wondering if I need to go buy a bigger or taller tank today. I am ok with doing it if I need too.

My day time temp is usually around 72 and my night time goes down to 68. I'm in NJ so it is pretty cold here right now. I bought a tank heating pad and attached it to the back of the tank. We keep our house temp around 67 during the day so the heater raises the tank about 4 degrees. Is this ok or should I get a light too to raise it higher during the day? Is the night temp of 68 ok or do I need to get a night bulb for heating too during the winter?

Finally regarding my substrate. I used and organic potting soil that had no chemicals or fertilzers in it. I put about 2.5 inches in the bottom of the tank and planted some pothos and bromelids in the tank. I was going to add some earthworms from my compost pile (I have an all organic landscape at home). I figure the earthworms will also help in keeping the soil clean. I have various vines and drift wood for climbing so they have several spots to sit up high at the top of the tank. Is this substrate ok? Should I have put gravel below the soil or a false bottom for drainage?

Any feed back anyone can give would really be appreciated. I do not mind having to make the changes. I've only had the frogs for 3 days now. They seem happy so far. They sleep in their corners during the day and around 7pm wake up and start moving around the tank and hunting down the crickets. We are very much enjoying them.

[1beataway]

I personally like my White's tank a few degrees warmer than that, both day and night. But yours are moving around and active, so I doubt they're too cold. However, adding a light will help those plants grow. Pothos grows really well.

They like a taller tank so they can climb. But I don't think they would do bad in a standard aquarium, especially if you have lots of vines and branches. I use to make my tank part water, part land, but they mess up the water so quick that I just use soil and a water dish. In my tank, I did rocks on the very bottom, screening on top of that, and then soil on top. I also covered the soil in moss and dried leaves, mostly to keep the frogs from dragging a lot into the water.

Also, two is not too many in that tank.

[winterwolfes]

Thanks for you reply! I would be ok with getting a taller tank but if I don't have to, I'll save the money.

I do have a grow light for the plants that I set to come on at 8am and turn off at 8pm for the plants.

The moss and dried leaves idea is great! I set up two water bowls in there figuring they both might want their own and they are filled with the soil every morning. That would help a lot. I'm definitely going to get some moss and leaves now.

I am going to buy an infrared heat lamp today to raise the temp. Do you have any recomendation for the how many watts I would need if my temps are currently 72 during the day and 68 at night? Also, do you think I should get 2 differnt sizes - one with a higher wattage for the day? Or should I just get the one and use it during the day and then turn off either the heat pad of the light at night?

[bshmerlie]

There's a lot of conflicting information out there because Whites are pretty hardy frogs and people have been successful at keeping them at different ranges. The most important thing is to keep an eye on your frogs behaviors. If they are active, eating properly, pooping normally then you are doing well. The reasons for keeping them a bit warmer is that it helps them to digest food better and also sometimes whites will turn brown if they are cold. I have never used heat lamps because I was always worried about drying out the tank too much and some people have had the frogs get burned by being too close to it. Although there are others that do use them with no problems. During the winter I just have an additional heat mat mounted to the side of the tank and it will bring itup a few degrees more. I then take it off during the summer. Water bowls are fine just make sure each one has his own bowl and clean out the bowl each day. You should probably add a drainage layer of Leca below the soil just as Elaine suggested with the screen and everything. This willl help the plants roots stay healthy. Don't overwater them just keep the soil moist. They are great frogs have fun with them.

[winterwolfes]

I just took at a look and the side that I have a heating pad mounted on is at about 71. The side without the pad is down at like 68. I was thinking that about getting an additional pad and mounting it on the 68 side.

But if the pad I have on there already only raised the temp about 4 degrees from my house temp is another heating pad really going to be able to raise it another 15 degrees? The other part of this is that right now I just have my old fish tank lid on there. I cut out the back 3 inches and attached screening to it but I doubt that provides enough ventilation. So I am going to go out tonight to buy a screen top and open it up. However, with it barely holding any temp now with the one heatind pad, I am wondering if another one will really help or if I need to go with the light while the temps in my house are just under 70 for the winter.

The things I've read about heating lamps drying the tank our or burning the frogs concerns me. But I'm wondering if during the winter I need to have one.

[bshmerlie]

Tim you said your house is at 68-69 degrees and your first mat brought you to 72 degrees. If you add another mat that will bring you up to probably about 76-77 degrees maybe slightly higher. I think you'd be fine with that. If you wanted you could simply raise your house temp by 1 degree and you could be at 78 degrees inside the tank. I don't think anyone's going to argue with that as your winter temp. As far as the top goes. I would defineatly get rid of the aquarium top simply because frogs have an amazing ability to escape things that we think we've made so secure. If you get a full screen top get a piece of glass cut at Lowe's or a glass shop (Lowes cuts for free) to cover half the top. Some people use plastic wrap as a simple solution or acrylic sheets. Also good lighting could help keep the temp up during the day. Again don't be so concerned about hitting a magic number. Its more important to watch their behaviors. The thing is when you're new its hard to know what exactly is their normal behaviors. Just take the time to get to know your frogs and they will let you know when they are unhappy.

[winterwolfes]

Last night I bought another heating pad. I have 2 6X8 pads now. Both set up on the same side of the tank. One is just abover the other so they cover almost that entire half of the tank. I also bought a digital thermometer. I measured the temp outside the tank and it was 69. Inside it was 74 on the side with the heaters. So having 2 heating pads raised the temp 5 degrees. I thought it would have done more. I did also put a screen top on so that definitely factors in with the heat loss. But I covered the side with the heaters in cellophane until I can get some glass cut this weekend.

The original heating pad I bought is buzzing and is not as warm as the one I bought last night. I wonder if there is a short in it? Which would be annoying since I just bought it on Saturday and I do not have the packaging or reciept.

I'm going to replace it and see if that helps. If not, I may go with a low wattage light as well during the winter. I'd feel more comfortable with a temp around 80.

I took some pictures last night of my frogs and the terrarium and will put them in my album today.

[Leefrogs]

temps are trickey. I have a vertical bamboo hide in warm corner with fake orchid with lots of leaves. In that corner is where I kinda concentrate my heat. Although I have a uth under water bowls that doesn't do much, opposite side. I used rock in that spot and it exadurated heat a bit, like raidiant heating to 80, just on rocks. I have 2.0 full spectrum hood. And a basking lamp at 50 watts. Note these rays are blocked by leaves of plant, but temp at top of leaves is 85, it's kinda angled in corner of glass, glass temp gets up to 90 and they love it. They could go lower if they didn't. When I shut the basking off before lights out ambient temp( opposite side) drops 5 degrees. My ambient takes till noon to get up to 80, the floor of viv usually at 75. So basking lights can dry them out, but if they have shade it stops being sun burnt. Both full spectrum and grow light baught at Walmart. Petshops over price same items. I heard lights can hurt frog eyes and u should run them for a week before using. Since I had run my tank for a month before getting them, I think I'm safe. But is this lighting myth?