Size Questions

[Sierra]

What are the thoughts on a bumblebee toad? I was looking at those yesterday and I really like them I'm not sure if I'd be able to get one though, and this would be way in the future anyways.

[tjtreefrog]

Kurt, who has a very good reputation as a frog authority, keeps a group of Bumble bee toads in a 5.5 gallon tank. He says and I quote: " I keep bumblebee toads in a 5.5 and they dissappear into it." I have to agree with Kurt on this one.

[bshmerlie]

Why does it seem like everyone is dying to keep there frogs in tiny tanks. Go ahead put your frogs in a dixie cup for all i care. Its like you're trying to convince me that its not animal torture or something. They are your frogs do what you want with them. I for one try to put my frogs in the largest tank I can afford. Its sad for the captive frog population that I seem to be the only one on this side of the fence. So you're right I must be wrong...your frogs will be happy in all their five gallons. If only the frogs could speak. Its sad that other members on this forum who believe as I do don't speak up for them. As the trend for smaller and smaller tanks continues.

[Sierra]

Why does it seem like everyone is dying to keep there frogs in tiny tanks. Go ahead put your frogs in a dixie cup for all i care. Its like you're trying to convince me that its not animal torture or something. They are your frogs do what you want with them. I for one try to put my frogs in the largest tank I can afford. Its sad for the captive frog population that I seem to be the only one on this side of the fence. So you're right I must be wrong...your frogs will be happy in all their five gallons. If only the frogs could speak. Its sad that other members on this forum who believe as I do don't speak up for them. As the trend for smaller and smaller tanks continues.

I'm sorry, I didn't say I was going to put it in there, I truly want the best for my frogs, I was told that the 12x12x12 would be fine for two whites, so I got it, but once I learned that it was not okay at all, I borrowed the money from my parents so I could buy them a larger terrarium, so they could be comfortable. I was only asking a question, and I value your answer, and I agree with you! I was curious for the sake of wondering why they sold something that small in the first place, and if it was possible if I could use it for a habitat for something else. I learned my lesson, and I'm happy to say my white's are happy now Thank you for your answer

[tjtreefrog]

Why does it seem like everyone is dying to keep there frogs in tiny tanks. Go ahead put your frogs in a dixie cup for all i care. Its like you're trying to convince me that its not animal torture or something. They are your frogs do what you want with them. I for one try to put my frogs in the largest tank I can afford. Its sad for the captive frog population that I seem to be the only one on this side of the fence. So you're right I must be wrong...your frogs will be happy in all their five gallons. If only the frogs could speak. Its sad that other members on this forum who believe as I do don't speak up for them. As the trend for smaller and smaller tanks continues.

I'm sorry Cheri, I thought you valued Kurt's opinion very much. If Bumble bee toads can be housed in a 5.5 gallon tank without any health problems, which I'm sure if there were any complications with the toads Kurt would not continue to house them in a 5.5 gallon tank or advise others to do the same, then why shouldn't someone keep them that way? I highly doubt people are doing it to torture their animals, but are rather doing it because they have limited space in their house for a tank.

[Leefrogs]

I even dug up the two week old thread to show the last sizing-philoisophical conversation you got into. Maybe I'll bump it up to the top so u can find it. As far as the whites, seems like not all whites get 4/5 inches. If this is the case, and my guys stay 3 inches, I will probably get another one. But if i get a big girl that changes it. And there's totaly nothing wrong with asking questions and discussing things. If you go on the net and find an Aussie site and read their tank size for whites it's totaly different. And since this is where whites come from, I think that is also a valuble opponion.

[bshmerlie]

This is simply a quality of life issue. Nothing else. Put you frogs in whatever size tank you feel they would want to spend their entire lives in.

[wesleybrouwer]

Cubic Inches to US Gallons (Liquid) conversion calculator
Cubic Centimeters to US Gallons (Liquid) conversion calculator
Those two might help

There are also converters to gallons dry, but I'm not sure what that really means..
I realize that a 12x12x12 is quite small for any frog, and I think I will just keep it as an emergency tank, because you can never know when you will need one.

I really like frogs, but at the time right now I couldn't get another frog anyways, thats something for after college
PS. Any stories or advice for taking a frog to college?? :P

Ah, thank you, that must mean i use a minimal of approx. 25 gallon tanks then

Maybe you can try and get to maintain a viv at school,
i used to do that when i was in high school.
I maintained an aquarium and viv, at the biology classroom.
We also had a tarantula and some reptiles there,
they were visible in the hallway

[wesleybrouwer]

I must go with Cheri on this one.

As i said, in my experience, sometimes it seems like a frog is doing fine in a small space.
When you don't provide them enough room, they will move less and don't start to maintain a natural territory.
You might see nothing special on the behaviour, but it may cause them stress.
When 2 males are placed in a viv where there is room to make a territory they might get into a fight, do you move them to a smaller tank, they don't always fight, as if they know they will never be able to retract when losing the fight over territory.
By taking this natural instinct away, i don;t think you can fully enjoy their behaviour.

Some people use really small tanks to breed Ranitomeya species,
since the male is not so busy maintaining it's natural territory,
they tend to breed more and faster.
Altough i think breeding to much isn't good for any animal.

The reasoning to look mere at size, i can not support.
Pumilio are small frogs, but they are really active and territorial,( there may be some lay back individuals), placing this small frog of 1,5-2,5 cm into a tank of 60x50x50 may seem like something overdone.
The opposite is true, most individuals don't do well in smaller enclosures.

On the other hand.
My Pedostibes are WC, so i placed them all 4 in quarantaine the first 4 months.
The viv i put them in had a size of 80x40x50 cm.
They did really well.
Didn't move so much but they stayed alive, the male even started calling.

Now i moved them into their permanent home.
It has a size of 1,5x0,65x1,5 metre.(approx. 386gal.)
They might seem lost in there.
But now i see them enjoying the space and showing behaviour they didn't show in the small viv.

Now, if someone would ask me, what is the minimal size.
Should i tell them that it is 80x40x50cm for 4 animals?
I understand 1,5 metre might be somewhat overdone, altough, they use every single cm of the viv. so it really is no waste of space to me.
When i kept them in the smaller viv. they never used up all the space.

A frog getting lost in a terrarium, i wonder what they are doing in nature then.
I don't think you will have to much space at all, only problem i can think of is getting them enough food.
In case of bumble bees, you can put in many woodlice, springtails and so on,
those will maintain your viv, breed in there and serve as a great food source.
Frogs also seem to know where you usually put in the food.
When they are hungry, most of the time you can see them check on the place you always drop the insects.

I must say, getting lost is not always fun, but once you know you;re way around,
i think you prefer a bigger space then being locked in your bedroom
Altough you might be able to survive by being hold in there.

[Sierra]

Ah, thank you, that must mean i use a minimal of approx. 25 gallon tanks then

Maybe you can try and get to maintain a viv at school,
i used to do that when i was in high school.
I maintained an aquarium and viv, at the biology classroom.
We also had a tarantula and some reptiles there,
they were visible in the hallway

My mom actually suggested the same thing, and since I want to go to medical school, and will be enrolled in a pre-med program, so I will probably be spending a lot of time there