My Pacman Frogs

[Animalnstinct]

I just got back from Las Vegas and I came back with 2 adorable pacman frogs! They are a bit stressed right now since they had a 4 hour drive home, but they seem to be settling down a bit. One is still jumping around a lot but the other has settled in the substrate already.

This is Appa, the largest of the two. He was super jumpy on the way home but is now buried down in his substrate and relaxing.



This is Gary. He is about half the size of Appa and is the one jumping around everywhere. Hopefully he will settle in soon and relax.



I was curious about sexing them? I would love to know what sex they are, but I think gary might be to young to tell. Appa might be big enough so I was wondering how big do they need to be around for you to get a good idea on their sex? I can take more pictures of them tomorrow and show them to you guys.

[Animalnstinct]

Thought of another question this morning. I gave them both a few calcium dusted crickets and gary had no interested and jumped out of his house on to the carpet and I had to chase him for a few minutes. Appa loved his cricket and gobbled him right away. I gave him 4 crickets, 2 red worms, and 3 meal worms all together. Do I just keep feeding him until he seems no longer interested or I should I limit it?

I fed him the meal worms with tongs to prevent them from going right into the substrate and I was wondering if biting the tongs could be dangerous for him? I don't want it to stab him in the back of the mouth or something.

Also, at one point Appa ate a huge moth of moss and I was wondering if I should be concerned?

[Kevin1]

I would be concerned about the moss. http://www.frogforum.net/african-bul...and-setup.html

Mealworms are very hard to digest with their hard exoskeleton. Freshly molted ones are safe though(white ones that are soft).

The tongs could hurt him if he bites hard enough but generally speaking he should be all right.

About how much to feed, I would feed him as much as he will eat in 15 minutes. That's what John recommends for pyxies and I employ it with pacs too.

Hope this helps.

[Animalnstinct]

Thank you Kevin, it's extremely helpful!

I didn't know that about using moss. A lot of the care sheets I read said to put moss in so I bought a brick of forest moss by Exo Terra. Right now I have about 2 inches of Eco Earth and then about 1 inch of the forest moss on top. I also just got a bag of oak leaf litter and put a very small amount of that in this morning.

Should I go ahead and take out the moss and do you think that the leaves are safe? I just want to double check because it looks like the caresheet I was reading was wrong and it also suggested the leaf litter.

If you can give me a few pointers on how to set up the habitat I would really appreciate it, as you have way more experience and knowledge then I do and care sheets seem to be iffy. I want to make sure that i provide these little guys with the best habitat and care that I can provide.

[Kevin1]

Leaves I wouldn't worry about, they break down and seem to pass through the system of these frogs just fine. About the moss, a lot of people don't know any better so don't feel bad even some "experts" recommend it. But to see how it is put some sphagnum moss outside in the dirt, next to it put some cocofiber and see how long it takes the moss to break down. I have some that's been sitting outside for years and literally looks unchanged.

The set up is pretty simple Just 2-3 inches of cocofiber a water dish that's easy to get in and out of. These frogs don't swim well and if it's a screen top I'd cover at least half the top with seran wrap or something like it. The other side put a 65 watt regular incandescent bulb. Now depending on your particular environment, You may need to adjust somethings as needed. For instance, I live in the mojave desert. Here it is very dry so I cover most of my frogs lids. I believe you said you live in nevada? So your climate is probably similar.
You want to shoot for 85-70/75, hot side 85 cool side 70/75. Humidity try no lower than 60%

If you have any more question feel free to post. Pics of their setup can help.

Dang that's a lot of typing. haha I must be feeling good today.

[Animalnstinct]

I sure appreciate all the typing your doing, it's super helpful!

I took out all the moss and added more eco earth and leaves for them. They are currently both in clear rubbermaid shoebox tubs with holes drilled in the lid for ventilation. This is just temporary until the tank they are going in is finished being split into two.

I currently don't have any lighting on them as I read that a lot of people I guess don't put any lighting on them at all as long as they get some good lighting from the room during the day. I do have some open lights for plants near them though.

Yeah I'm in Nevada. Our temps and humidity are pretty similar. They are both in my critter room which is temperature controlled to maintain 78 degrees at night then around 84 during the day, with an overall humidity of the room being about 50%. I did put a hygrometer and thermometer in with them and it says during the day the temp is 80-82 and at night it's about 76-78 in the habitat, with a humidity of 80%.

I also have a shallow water dish in with each one and I plan to put coconut houses in with them when they go to their permanent homes. Currently right now they have this arched fake vine plant in the corner to give them some extra coverage.

I currently have reptocal to dust their food, do you think that doing it 2-3 times a week is a good amount? I don't currently have any multi-vitamin dust but I'm going to order some this week and plan to dust 2-3 times a week with that as well. The cheapest I could find in vegas was $30 for a tiny little bottle, so I figured purchasing from JoshsFrogs would be best.

I also wanted to ask about how important feeding pinkies to them is? The shop where I got Appa from stressed feeding him pinkies as I guess he just started eating them a few days ago, but getting them isn't going to be easy where I live. If it is important to feed them pinkies, will the frozen ones give him the same nutrients as a live one? Also, if I should feed him pinkies how often do you recommend including them in his diet. Currently I have crickets, mealworms ( making sure to feed only freshly molted ones now), and red wigglers.

Sorry to bombard you with a ton of questions, but I just want to make sure and do everything I can for them and you've been very informative! :P

[Kevin1]

No need to apologize for the bombardment. So far you've been asking very good questions.

The shoe box thing is just fine. I keep my albino in one with holes drilled in the lid and on a heat pad. I should apologize I assumed they were being kept in a 10 gallon tank.
The temps and humidity are good. But if there not eating as much or defecating like they should I would try raising the heat. I strongly recommend a heat gradient kind of like what you may do for reptiles. Having options is key to the survival of all life.

2-3 times a week for dusting is good. They can be supplemented with calcium as much as you like. Any unused I believe would just pass right through. The vitamins I would give more sparingly. Frogs seem to be sensitive to vitamins and too much can be harmful. once or twice a week with a multivitamin is fine.

I'm very glad you asked about feeding rodents. I wouldn't feed anymore than once every month or two. They tend to cause an early demise in frogs/amphibians.
Did you buy these from Exotic Pets?

[Animalnstinct]

Thank you very much for all the help!

I am worried about Gary, smallest of the two, as he has not eaten anything yet. Appa ate yesterday, but he had no interest this morning, but since he did eat yesterday I'm not as worried about him. I will try again tonight to give them some more food.

I also took your recommendation and raised the heat in the room today and hopefully that will help Gary and encourage him to eat. I'm pretty sure though he ate right before I got him because he had to massive poops on the way home, lol. So hopefully he might just not be hungry yet.

I actually got each of them from two different Petcos in Vegas. They were hard to get a hold of and were literally the last two out of all the petcos and petsmarts in vegas.

I really love these guys and actually got the surprise of being told I could get a couple more if I want to today as a nice little gift!

I went to Phat Phibs but I couldn't find their stock and I seen LLLreptile has some in. I've heard lots of good things about Phat Phibs and If I could purchase them from there I would love to. Do you know how LLLreptile does with live animals? I ordered feeders from them before and had a mess but I wonder how they are with the actual animals they have on hand.

These are the two I was looking at:

Baby Ornate Pacman Frogs

Baby Green Pacman Frogs

What do you think? I'm still learning about the differences of the Pacmans like exactly what gary and appa are.

[Malachi]

I have 2 ornates and a cranwellii like the ones you have pictured.

The Cranwellii eats less and is less aggressive and more nocturnal.

The Ornates have a HUGE feeding response and are much more aggressive.

[Kevin1]

I haven't bought anything from Phat Phibs, but I have from LLL. All there animals looked healthy and well cared for. Though the animals I bought were in store. The only thing I've ever gotten shipped to me from them was a temp gun.

[Kevin1]

The frogs shown in your post are cranwell's(C. Cranwelli). Sometimes known as the Chaco horned frog,Argentine horned frog,

Like Malachi said, the Ornate Horned frog(C. Ornata) tend to be more fun to keep. Also they tend to have more color and grow to larger sizes.

There's a few others commonly kept in the hobby.

The Fantasy Frog(C. Cranwelli X C. Cornuta) tend to be pretty and have a good appetite.

The Suriname horned frog(C. Cornuta) also known as the Amazon horned frog are available from time to time, mostly wild caught but captive bred froglets tend to be popping up more and more frequently. Wild caughts, generally are hard to keep and tend to be picky eaters.
Captive bred can be kept much like the other commonly available species, with the exception of needing higher humidity requirements(80%+).

[Animalnstinct]

Thank you for clarifying what Gary and Appa are.

I went ahead and ordered from lllreptile and they came in perfect health, and wow do the two of them pig out compared to Appa and Gary! My green baby pacman actually got a hold of my finger already, lol.

Do they change color at all? I was just curious because Appa colors look pretty different since I first got him. He is more of a dark brown and forest green now with 3 super yellow stripes down his back. It's like the other yellow and tan on his body went away and turned the dark brown and green. I'll take a picture today to show you what I mean. I hope it's a good sign not a bad sign of something?

Everyone else seems to have no color change, it's just Appa ( my largest). He is also making clicking noises? Is that a normal sound?

Here is the two little guys I got from lllreptile.

Booger




JoJo

[Kevin1]

I'm not sure about the clicking noise, but the color change is fine and normal as they grow.
Cranwelli tend to change dramatically in color as they get older. For instance your new green one there will probably lose it's green and tend brown by adulthood. Every once in a while there will be a green cranwelli that will stay green it's whole life, those are exceptional specimens.

[Animalnstinct]

Appa hasn't made the clicking noise yet again, but today Gary was making a really loud noise that sounded like a mouse being killed. Is that normal?

Also, does that mean it's a boy or do females make noise as well?