Tarantula Questions...

[Jace]

I recently bought a Chilean rose tarantula (on December 24th to be exact) and Chili has yet to eat for me. Not too concerned about that, as he is a healthy size. However, he is extremely active and constantly walking around his enclosure and even trying to climb the sides. I am not used to a tarantula being so active-is this normal? Should I offer him more floor space?

As well, I have been trying to find out the differences between an Antilles Pink Toed tarantula (A. versicolor) and a Pink Toed (A. avicularia). I definitely have a Pink Toed, but how can I tell if it is one or the other?

Thanks for the help!!

[Animalnstinct]

Rosie's can go awhile without eating so like you mentioned nothing to worry to much about. When I got my first rose hair she went months without eating.

What are you currently using as substrate? Sometimes when they start wandering around it's because they don't like the substrate. Which could be a few things like it being to damp, using bark chips, and even the floor being a bit hot from a heating pad underneath.

If you think it could be from dampness try letting the substrate dry out a bit and just provide a little water dish. If you are using bark chips you should try and get rid of that right away as bark chips can cause possible future problems outside of just discomfort for your T.

In regards to the possibility of a heating pad making the ground too warm, I would also get rid of that as long as your house doesn't get real cold. Heating pads can lead to different issues as well and as long as your comfortable she should be comfortable.

The Avicularia versicolor (Martinique or Antilles Pink Toe) is readily identifiable against the much more common Avicularia avicularia (Common Pink Toe). The former is bright metallic blue as a s'ling and juvenile until it reaches maturity and takes on a dramatic change in appearance - from blue to a striking abdomen covered in red setae, and both the carapace and legs will have a green to dark bluish sheen to them. The Avic avic on the other hand is what you will find most commonly at the local pet store, and is almost entirely black with the pink scopulae at the end of each leg.

I hope that makes it's almost 1:30 am here I'm starting to really feel it, lol

[Jace]

Thanks for the reply-especially at so late a time!!

With Chili, I am using Reptile Bark...I am guessing this is the wrong substrate. What should I change it to? I was online last night looking it up and most sites suggested coconut husk-is this what you use? The substrate is otherwise dry and there is a small water dish available at all times. I don't use a heat pad as my house is a pretty comfortable temperature.

Hmmnm, well, I will have a good look at some pictures of Kamani and see if I can tell. I just don't trust the store I bought her at on properly IDing her. She was sold as a A. avicularia. I am also in the process of buying another Pink Toed, labelled as A. versicolor, but honestly, both tarantulas look the same to me. Might be the lighting in the store though. Thanks for the time and the help!

[Animalnstinct]

We're up late some nights completing projects and other work for our clients! So not a problem at all.

Tarantula's don't tend to appreciate repti-bark very much, something about the texture tends to annoy a lot of them. With the additional health risks it can present, it's almost frustrating that a lot of pet stores recommend it! Coco husk, aka Eco Earth, Plantation Soil, Coir and a variety of other names it goes under is what we use and recommend. The bricks go for about $3-4 for one, or usually $8-9 for a pack of three, and expand tremendously. It's soft, looks great, and can be easily burrowed into, plus you can always recycle it for plants when the T is done with it.

Here's a good picture of the Common (Avic avic):

http://www.zootours.ca/pages/ourshowanimals/03.jpg

Notice how the legs, carapace and abdomen are all jet black, and the scopulae at the end of each leg is bright pink? These and the Avicularia metallica are sometimes confused in images, because of their similar appearance - the metallica tends to be more bluish in color though, with whitish tips on their setae.

Here's the versicolor:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...color_9_Fh.jpg

Brilliant red and while the body structure is similar in shape, size and fuzziness the overall appearance is quite dramatically different. It was late last night when I posted that previous reply and I mistakenly mentioned the legs being the same color as the carapace. The legs are actually the same color as the abdomen as is made glaringly obvious in the above image! Ours is still a bright blue little girl, so I was working on sleep deprived imagery in my head.

[Jace]

Wow-those images really made it obvious!! Thank you! Kamani is definitely an A. avicularia. She is still beautiful, but not in such an obvious way. I am still unsure about the one I want to buy, but either way, I know I can get her for a deal and it will be money well spent either way.

I went out and bought a brick of coco husk, as well as a slightly larger terriarium. Between the coconut hut and water dish, there wasn't a whole lot of room in the original container for Chili, so I wanted to give him a bit more floor space.

Your info and experience has been a great help! I included a pic of Kamani, who is absolutely beautiful in my eyes. She has been an excellent tarantula to learn from and has been very patient with my sometimes bumbling good intentions!!

[Animalnstinct]

Well, I don't want to complicate this any further for you... but that could be an Avicularia metallica. I asked a friend who has many more Avics than I and they aren't 100% sure either without more pictures, but are leaning towards an A met too. The problem is that with those two species of the Avic genus, flash and ambient light can play so many tricks it's easy to misidentify via photos - it's not all that easy sometimes in person, for that matter.

The hair (setae) all over her body, does it look like it has a white tip up close and personal, or is that just a result of your flash? If they're white tipped then it is more than likely an A metallica. If that was just the flash, A avicularia.

[Jace]

Sigh...this couldn't be easy, could it?? LOL I will take a closer look at her. I have a couple other pics of her from before her molt and one I took last night after her molt. Not sure if it's the flash or not. Now, let's see if I can find them....

[Jace]

And I tried to get some pics of the underside of Chili in a drinking glass. Not sure if they are clear enough or the right area for anyone to tell sex. He is now sitting in said drinking glass and not coming out. Ha-just my luck!!

[Jace]

During feeding, I managed to get a good look at Kamani with a flashlight-she definitely has lighter tips on all her hairs. How exciting!!

[flamesbane]

Kamani is definitely an A. avicularia. A. avicularia have white tipped setae on their legs (as do most Avicularia), however Kamani doesn't have the white tipped setae on the abdomen you would expect to see on an A. metallica.

If you use some sort of coco bedding for your new G. rosea (congrats BTW) make sure you let it dry out thoroughly before you use it. They don't like wet substrate at all, I am not able to see much on the ventral pics of the G. rosea, if you could pics that are more dead on it might be easier. Ventral sexing is somewhat inaccurate even with good pics, but they can't hurt!

[Animalnstinct]

Kamani is definitely an A. avicularia. A. avicularia have white tipped setae on their legs (as do most Avicularia), however Kamani doesn't have the white tipped setae on the abdomen you would expect to see on an A. metallica.

After all the confusion, I think we have a winner. My husband and I only own an A versicolor so we do not have specimens on hand to accurately study; another thread I found in my search here seems to correlate with what flamesbane is mentioning of the white tipped setae being predominant all over the A metallica and a more pink tipped (which can appear whitish) setae on the Avic avic.

This is one reason the Avicularia species is quite prone to accidental hybridization, something most breeders do everything in their power to avoid. A select few less careful ones don't hesitate and our local pet stores can quite easily wind up with specimens that are very easy to incorrectly identify without the help of a dedicated taxonomist. Not saying that yours is one of these, just musing more than anything.

The metallica's are definitely not rare, but you hardly see them in pet stores so it would have been a cool find. Guyana's are just as pretty though and have that trademark Avic high step that we love so much.

[Jace]

Thanks Will and Jennie! Kamani is amazing no matter what she is. She has definitely grown since her molt, and I think she is beautiful no matter what. As long as her needs are being met (which I know they are) and she allows me to learn and observe her (which she does), all is good.

Chili is now on a bed of coco husk, which I merely broke apart dry and gave him about an 1" or so. The first night, there was webbing in the enclosure, which I am taking to be a good sign, because there was nothing before with the Reptile Bark. I will try again with the ventral pics, but I am really not all that worried. I know females have longer life spans than males, so, ideally, it would be great if he was a she. My main thing is just to get him to eat. Kamani is like clock work unless she is getting ready to molt, so this could be frustrating!! Is there any significance to his webbing?? Like he's getting ready to molt...or do they just naturally do this all over everything?

Thanks again! I really appreciate all this advice and insight. And Will, you were right--how could I have possible thought I would just have one??!!??

[flamesbane]

No problem and glad to help, I am really surprised more people don't keep tarantulas they really are great pets.

As far as your substrate, you will probably want to add a little more. Terrestrial tarantulas, such as Chili, can actually get hurt if they fall too far. I don't know what sort of enclosure you have Chili in, but you would ideally want 1.5x the tarantulas legspan from the top of the substrate to the lid. So if she has a 4.5" to 5" legspan (as she appears to) around 7-8" is ideal.

Don't worry too much about getting Chili to eat. As long as the opisthosomsa is bigger than the promosa you should be fine. G. rosea can go a year without food, and 2-3 month fasts are pretty common. G. rosea are pretty much pet rocks just make sure Chili has access to water.

The great thing about G. rosea is that they are very slow growing, so even if Chili is a he he could eaisly live 2-4 years after their ultimate molt. I just had a MM G. rosea make a post-ultimate molt...

Good luck with Chili!

[Jace]

I have Chili in a different container now-one that is longer than it is higher. He can stretch upwards and touch the top with his front legs, but still have his back legs on the ground. I didn't want him to do any climbing and falling in his first container, so I thought short and long was better!!

How do you know when a male tarantula has had his post-ultimate molt? I just had a Chilean Rose surrendered to my petstore, and he is about twice the size of Chili and has very obvious tibial hooks and clubbed pedipalps. It is estimated he is almost 2 years old. I doubt if we will be able to resell him, so I have offered to take him home but it would be nice to know how much time I might still have to observe him. I have already named him Frapp.

I included a couple of pics of Chilis' new home. He has made significant webbing in the corner by the plant and has silken strands all along that one side. He's been very busy in his new setup!! Oh, and his water dish gets cleaned and refreshed every other day.

[Animalnstinct]

Most MM tarantula's never survive their post-ultimate molt, and even more don't even get there to find out. They're not built to molt with the tibial hooks and if they're lucky enough to live long enough to try, this is where they get stuck and fail. There are some very rare cases where MMs have survived their post-ultimate but it's so rare that you can pretty much bet the farm in the other direction.

There have been recorded cases where a MM has lived nearly 5 years after their ultimate molt. Most will pass away peacefully within 6-12 months. Given that the one you have is only 2 years old, there is a higher risk that he may try to molt again despite reaching maturity already. The best thing you could do for him right now is find him a date! Any breeders or avid hobbyists locally that have a MF of their own and want to pair them up, or you can always try posting on a few of the invert/tarantula forums and sell him to a breeder. A lot of people will do 50/50's where you ship the MM to them, they pair it with their MF, and when the babies arrive send back half the brood. This is only beneficial to you though if you'd like to have your hands on 100-250 tiny G rosea's.

If we discover you have a female yourself, there's a date right there! Will's right though, the shots are great but sadly the area we need to see (the forward book lungs, where we see mostly the rear ones in those pictures) is somewhat obscured. What you're looking for there is an enlarged group of setae generally accompanied by a darker triangular or half moon patch. The way to be 100% though is to save your next molt and look for the presence of spermathecae. between the forward book lungs.

[John911]

Look into picking up The Tarantula Keepers Guide. Pretty good read. I enjoy forums, but sometimes paper is nice. They have a pretty good section just on rosies, and how being mostly WC and from the southern hemisphere confuses them.

[Jace]

Thanks, Jennie. I am hoping that Frapp will stick around for at least a couple of months. I got him free, so regardless, I can't complain overly much. He wasn't as aggressive as I thought he would be, and tolerated the gentle prodding from container to container until he made it to his final home. I noticed some damage to one of his front legs, but it does not seem to be inhibiting him at all.

I also got a really great deal on the Antilles Pink Toe, though I am not sure if she was labelled correctly. She was at the petstore for a very long time, and looks to be adult size (she had a molt just before Christmas). She does not have A. versicolor colouring, and appears almost black compared to Kamani. Maybe the camera will pick up what I can't see when I take photos of her. Oh, and I named her Katara!

John, that is an excellent suggestion and I have to admit, that I actually have that book. I have yet to read it cover to cover, though, but with these new additions, I am finding the knowledge in the book and on this Forum to be incredible. Considering that in less than a month, I tripled my tarantula collection!! I blame Will and Jennie....