Whit's Tree Frog with Swollen leg and possible bloat, PLEASE HELP

[Kisa]

I was changing my WTF's water today and noticed that he was lying slightly tilted to the side, on the ground. I moved the log hide he was lying under and noticed that one of his back legs and foot is swollen slightly. I know it is not good to panic prematurely, but I am very scared that this may be serious. I don't have the money to take him to a vet, so any advice on diagnosis and treatment is VERY welcome and appreciated. This is my first frog, and I have worked very hard to keep his viv clean and comfortable.

I've only had him for 2 weeks and one day (which voids my petsmart pet health guarantee, it's only 14 days) and have changed his water every day, kept the temp and humidity at the most constant levels I could (humidity sometimes gets very high from over misting, between 60-90%. I know this is very high and it could be the cause of his swollen leg. The temperature is always between 70 and 86 degrees F, it is very hard to control the temperature in the room we're in and sometimes I have large fluctuations) and made sure that he was clean of any bacteria by washing all of his accessories in hot water and drying them thoroughly.

Other than the swelling and possible bloat, he has been VERY inactive, sleeping all day and most of the night. The only time I see him shift position is when he has moved to his water bowl in the night and sometimes falls asleep in there until I turn his day light back on at 6.30.

Oh, and btw, I have been using bottled spring water for his bowl and misting. I use very hot tap water to clean his accessories and dry them thoroughly before placing them back in his viv (only cleaned his tank once because I was worried the substrate was too wet and would breed bacteria, guess I was right...)

Here are some pictures, please help!!!!

http://s1194.photobucket.com/albums/...0103180044.jpg

http://s1194.photobucket.com/albums/...0103193543.jpg

This is a picture of him from behind his third day home, he is slightly smaller and his leg looks fine comparatively.

http://s1194.photobucket.com/albums/...1222095210.jpg

[Leefrogs]

check out toad emergency posted today and read what sugar said bout leg joint swelling. Good luck hun

[Kisa]

check out toad emergency posted today and read what sugar said bout leg joint swelling. Good luck hun

Thank you for the reference, I'll check it out now.

[Kisa]

Just an update on Bruce's condition.

The swelling began as just a slight enlargement in his foot alone, but after I picked him up to inspect it, the swelling moved into his leg and possibly his stomach. In the middle of the night I got up to check on him and the swelling was much worse, but I noticed that he was able to walk, because when I got up this morning to turn on his day light he was in his water dish, sleeping.

The foot as a slightly red discoloration on the bottom, but this has not spread to his leg or his stomach as of yet. For now I'm not ruling out anything, so red leg could be a possibility, though I'm not sure if this particular ailment causes any swelling, I'm looking at warning signs for any possible injury.

Here are some pictures as of this morning:

20110104103157.jpg picture by Kisa6 - Photobucket

20110104103157.jpg picture by Kisa6 - Photobucket

As for behavior, he is still just trying to sleep it off I think. He shifted strangely in his water bowl and his nose was really close to the water so I moved him to a warmer position atop his stone bridge, I was afraid he would drown.

Right now, the temp is 82 and the humidity is 55%. I am afraid to mist because I don't know if humidity could have caused the swelling in the first place.

[John]

That frog needs to see a vet right now. That's the only chance it has.

[Kisa]

That frog needs to see a vet right now. That's the only chance it has.

...Do you really think so? What do you think he has...?

I PM'd Paul, you, and Kurt and Paul replied to me this morning telling me that these things happen and an injury like this has the potential to heal on it's own. I came home from an outing this evening to check on Bruce and the swelling in his leg has gone down considerably. I also tested to see if he could walk and I threw a cricket into his viv to see if he would eat it. He hunted the cricket just as he always had and seemed to only have a little difficulty moving around and walking. The leg is probably still bothering him a little, but I think he could be getting better.

I respect your opinion but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on what could be wrong with him.

[Kisa]

Came home today after an evening out (trying to leave Bruce be and give him space to heal, as instructed by Paul) and checked on Bruce to find that the swelling in his leg seems to have gone down considerably. He was sleeping in the same exact spot I had left him, which concerned me at first, but after a little goading I got him to move a little to test whether he could walk on the leg still or not. He took a few annoyed steps and settled down next to his rock.

Just to be safe I threw one of my smaller crickets into his viv to see if he would eat, after a little while of just sitting perfectly still he went after the cricket just as he normally would and ate it no problem, so eating is not an issue.

Though I still don't know what's wrong with him, for all intents and purposes it seems like Bruce is no the road to recovery. Please keep your fingers crossed for him, if the swelling doesn't disappear within a week or if his condition seems to worsen I will take him to a vet immediately, but right now I'm just going to wait and see what happens.

[Kisa]

Now I don't know what's happening, Bruce didn't visit his water dish this morning and when I pulled the log up to check on his leg it seemed no better. I moved him a little but it was harder this time and he seemed much less willing to walk, also, when I put the log back down he backed all the way up until he was half climbing the glass.

The fact that he didn't visit his water bowl scares me more than anything, I caved and made an appointment for the vet. I would rather spend all the money I have than watch him suffer any more.

Even if no one reads this thread, I'm going to update with news from the vet this evening.

[Ebony]

Kisa, Good luck at the vet. I hope Bruce will be ok.

[Kisa]

Kisa, Good luck at the vet. I hope Bruce will be ok.

Thank you for the good wishes Ebony, I really appreciate it. <3

I will keep this page updated with news from the vet (though I may not be able to go this evening as I have planned).

[Leefrogs]

wanted to say hi, and ask how he's doing. After the second day, u said it looked better. So I hope that's a trend. Kermit gets kind of clumsy after a big meal. I've seen him fall off bamboo once. Saw a super skinney whites at petstore today. She was big, 5". But all bones. So atleast I know how trim they can get. Ive seen it before, but just her head, that was 3 months ago. So mine are going on a diet. Just scared of my frog falling again. I hope that's what happened to Bruce. And a fall will heal, I hope. And if sumthing does go wrong with mine all I have is this forum. The nearest exotics vet it 3 hours across state line. I think the ride would kill a sick frog. Hopefully u came home and leg looked smaller again. That would make u smile.

[rach]

Hi Kisa,
I will keep my fingers crossed for Bruce and yourself and hope everything clears up ok. It sucks to feel so helpless.

[Kisa]

If only it was just a twist or a bump, Lee.

Took Bruce to a nice little vet today that actually isn't too far from my house. The woman who saw him seemed knowledgeable and was very friendly. She even said White's were her favorite frog.

She noticed the swelling but said it didn't look as bad as before and saw that earlier picture of him and said that he looked bloated then but he didn't know. One scary thing is that she noticed that his right eye was cloudy, which I know is an indication of a more serious illness. She said he probably had an infection and that we couldn't rule out red leg, but she told me that if it IS in fact red leg, then we caught it early and it may still be treatable.

She prescribed Baytril as an oral antibiotic (which is hard as all hell to administer, so hope you never have to do that :/, oh and Bruce hated it and tried to throw it right up, which was very concerning and crazy to watch), and an eye drop for the cloudiness in his eye, something called Gentocin Ophthalmic Solution. I have a recheck in 7 days if we see no improvement in his condition, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

Something else that was very interesting: The doctor told me that whatever he has, be it red leg or another type of infection, he probably had it before I bought him since I haven't had him that long and she was very confident that I was taking the best care of him that I possibly could, which is very reassuring.

Right now all I can do is do what the doctor told me and hope for the best.

Thank all of you for your support and optimistic attitudes, please keep your fingers crossed for my Brucey, if I loose him I don't know what I'll do. D:

[Kisa]

Hi Kisa,
I will keep my fingers crossed for Bruce and yourself and hope everything clears up ok. It sucks to feel so helpless.

Hi, rach, thank you for your well wishes. It feels good to know that I have support and that people are rooting for Bruce and I. I will keep this thread updated with his condition and post any changes he goes through.

[Kisa]

wanted to say hi, and ask how he's doing. After the second day, u said it looked better. So I hope that's a trend. Kermit gets kind of clumsy after a big meal. I've seen him fall off bamboo once. Saw a super skinney whites at petstore today. She was big, 5". But all bones. So atleast I know how trim they can get. Ive seen it before, but just her head, that was 3 months ago. So mine are going on a diet. Just scared of my frog falling again. I hope that's what happened to Bruce. And a fall will heal, I hope. And if sumthing does go wrong with mine all I have is this forum. The nearest exotics vet it 3 hours across state line. I think the ride would kill a sick frog. Hopefully u came home and leg looked smaller again. That would make u smile.

That would make me smile, but unfortunately he seemed no better than before this morning. The fact that the swelling went down and we was eating was very reassuring but because he didn't visit his water dish and seemed more reluctant to hunt I caved and brought him to the vet, I couldn't help it.

Oh my goodness the poor poor thing! It was the exact opposite with Bruce, if it was anything they were overfeeding him. 5-8 crickets a day is WAY too much. :/

I'm sure kermit will be alright, as long as the little guy didn't fall too far he'll be a-okay. You're very observant and seem to be doing great taking care of them, I have high hopes that they will be healthy and happy.

Did you get them at a chain pet store? If so which one?

I'm sorry to hear you're so far from a vet, I was very lucky to find the one that I did, and actually I was referred there by the manager at my petsmart, so at least they did one good thing for me. That's not going to stop me from going down there and giving them a piece of my mind. They're going to get an earful for selling me a sick frog. D<

[Leefrogs]

so what the vet say. Has he started u on reginine of some kind. Thanks fir ur concern, but I wana know bout yours.

[Kisa]

Possible good news.

I gave bruce his medication last night and noticed that he hasn't gone cloudy in only one eye, but now both, so I just began putting one eye drop in each eye. I'm not going to let this scare me too much. I'm staying on the antibiotics and keeping my fingers crossed that he won't even need that check up in seven days. Also, I put a cricket in with him last night after his medicine, sort of as a treat and "sorry for shoving that syringe down your throat and make you puke" gift, but he didn't seem interested in it at all. Yesterday he ate a cricket and his belly could still be full from the medicine and his own fattness, so I'm not letting this get to me either just yet. Plus he hasn't pooped since his last real feed that weekend so he may still be full of nasty waste as well.

But on to the good news!

I got up this morning and found Bruce sitting in his water bowl! Sleeping of course, but I think this is a good sign. He hasn't been to his bowl in a few days since he was sick, so I'm taking this as a good sign that he's on the road to recovery. Looking into his water dish now I'm seeing that there's some type of waste floating in there with him. Once he gets out freely (he's pretty dry since he's been sick and I want him to get hydrated), I'll remove it and check it out. Hopefully it's that poop I've been waiting for, which would be an ever better sign!

I'll keep everyone posted.

[Kisa]

Still not sure what the cloudiness in Bruce's bowl could've been, but I'm definitely going to update the vet when we go back.

Since I've taken him there last wednesday, Bruce has developed small lesions on his back leg (the one that was swollen). Since noticing these I have kept it extra dry in his viv (I left his water bowl in there but made it shallower and have restricted misting to once a day. I replaced his substrate with paper towels so I can monitor him more closely and have taken out most of the accessories I bought him. I left his water bowl, his log hide and a rock just in case he gets too cold. I sterilized these in boiling filtered water and placed them back in his viv after wiping it down with water to clean the bottom and sides. I've raised temps to 82-86 in the day time and 75 at night, the vet told me to keep it warm and dry while he heals.

Although it seems Bruce has lost his appetite since I started him on the antibiotics, he hasn't lost any significant weight yet and still has the strength to climb the walls of his viv and try to wrestle his way out of my hands when I take him out to give him his medicine.

I bought latex gloves since I've noticed the lesions on his leg and Neosporin to treat them with. I will apply it twice daily in small quantities with a Q-tip (and no I did not buy Neosporin + with pain relief, I read that it will kill him). I have been putting one drop in each eye and the proper amount of antibiotics orally each day.

With a little time and some luck, I think we'll get through this.

[Leefrogs]

Glad to hear he has streingth and is still chunky. Thanks for keeping us posted.

[Kisa]

Quick update:

Bruce ate a cricket! I put one in there just a few minutes ago and at first it didn't seem like he wanted it, or maybe he couldn't even see it, I'm not sure, but the cricket walked right up under him and he just opened his mouth and ate it!

I was so worried about his appetite I'm just glad he ate, even if it was only one. I put another one in there for him to see if he'd eat it as well. So far, no dice, but hopefully once he realizes it's in there he'll go for this one too.

Thanks for reading lee! I'll definitely let everyone know what's going on in the next few days. Overall, I feel like Bruce is getting better. Let's hope the vet does too.